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The Coin Flip: A Fundamentally Unfair Proposition? (2009)

41 pointsby gluxonalmost 10 years ago

10 comments

heyitsnickalmost 10 years ago
&quot;1% may not sound like a lot, but it&#x27;s more than the typical casino edge in a game of blackjack or slots.&quot;<p>The house edge for slots games is anywhere from 2% to 15%+ and is one of the worst bets you can make in the casino.<p>Blackjack, video poker and some bets on craps are the only times in a casino where the house edge shrinks to below 1%.
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plonhalmost 10 years ago
A commenter explains that the most interesting claim (51% bias) is not explained correctly in the article. Humans flipping a coin add a bit of precession (spin) that biasses the toss. The &quot;odd&#x2F;even time in the air&quot; analysis is incorrect -- that only matters if it is possible to stop the coin before the first flip.
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shuriualmost 10 years ago
This video from Numberphile goes in depth about this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Obg7JPd6cmw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Obg7JPd6cmw</a> . The guy talking, is Persi Diaconis, is the main author of the paper this article is based upon.<p>He also has done research on the randomness of shuffling cards: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=AxJubaijQbI" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=AxJubaijQbI</a> . Pretty cool stuff!
jmountalmost 10 years ago
My small take: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.win-vector.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2015&#x2F;04&#x2F;i-still-think-you-can-manufacture-an-unfair-coin&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.win-vector.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2015&#x2F;04&#x2F;i-still-think-you-can...</a>
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qzncalmost 10 years ago
The paper ends with &quot;The caveats and analysis also point to the following conclusion: For tossed coins, the classical assumptions of independence with probability 1&#x2F;2 are pretty solid.&quot;
RogerLalmost 10 years ago
I think this link botches the explanation for 51%. 51% is because of precession, as explained in the paper[1]. With enough precession the coin will <i>always</i> come up heads if it starts out heads. That&#x27;s how magicians control coin tosses.<p>He tries to describe it in terms of HTHTHT. Coins do not have memory. They don&#x27;t know if they&#x27;ve previously flipped 3 times, 4 times, or 1e308 times. If you draw from [HTHTHT..HT] randomly, you&#x27;ll get 50% heads and 50% tails. Change that to [THTHTH..TH] and the answer is the same.<p><i>With</i> precession the answer changes because it stays in the initial state longer. As the paper points our &quot;Keller showed that in the limit of large initial velocity and largerate of spin, a vigorous flip, caught in the hand without bouncing, lands heads half the time.&quot; Keller assumed no precession.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;statweb.stanford.edu&#x2F;~susan&#x2F;papers&#x2F;headswithJ.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;statweb.stanford.edu&#x2F;~susan&#x2F;papers&#x2F;headswithJ.pdf</a><p>edit: I just saw that in the comments they point this flaw out. It gets hand waved away by the author as a &quot;oversimplification&quot; that he made. My opinion is that it is okay to simplify, but not to the point of being wrong. The explanation is not how probability works, at all.
zw123456almost 10 years ago
The most interesting part to me was this &quot;A coin will land on its edge around 1 in 6000 throws, creating a flipistic singularity.&quot; (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Flipism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Flipism</a>)<p>I assume that was as the result of using the tossing machine, but I really thought it would not have been that frequent.
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soup10almost 10 years ago
Good to know! Relevant clip of some very entertaining gambling by two poker pros:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=ZQSIx3CU9rA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=ZQSIx3CU9rA</a>
raymondhalmost 10 years ago
See also: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.stat.columbia.edu&#x2F;~gelman&#x2F;research&#x2F;published&#x2F;diceRev2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.stat.columbia.edu&#x2F;~gelman&#x2F;research&#x2F;published&#x2F;dice...</a>
coldpiealmost 10 years ago
Mostly off topic, but boy do I enjoy articles that use the word &quot;tosser&quot; innocuously.