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'Oldest' Koran fragments found in Birmingham University

103 pointsby sjclemmyalmost 10 years ago

10 comments

lingbenalmost 10 years ago
as already mentioned in the article[1], the velum may be much older than the text written on it since it was very valuable and regularly reused:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Palimpsest" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Palimpsest</a><p>really surprised that they did not test for any previous washed text underneath since this is both common and the test quite simple and easy to perform<p>EDIT: [1] my mistake, it was in the NYT article on the same topic: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;07&#x2F;23&#x2F;world&#x2F;europe&#x2F;quran-fragments-university-birmingham.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;07&#x2F;23&#x2F;world&#x2F;europe&#x2F;quran-fragmen...</a><p>Saud al-Sarhan, the director of research at the King Faisal Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, said he doubted that the manuscript found in Birmingham was as old as the researchers claimed, noting that its Arabic script included dots and separated chapters — features that were introduced later.<p>He also said that dating the skin on which the text was written did not prove when it was written. Manuscript skins were sometimes washed clean and reused later for new writings, he said.
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rikkusalmost 10 years ago
Perhaps coincidentally, on BBC Four tonight a programme was shown which describes vellum (the material on which this manuscript was written) and the process behind creating it.<p>A clip is here: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;programmes&#x2F;p01pr4ty" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;programmes&#x2F;p01pr4ty</a><p>A slightly longer clip on the same subject: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;programmes&#x2F;p00n3rdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;programmes&#x2F;p00n3rdf</a>
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cmscmscmsalmost 10 years ago
I would also like to point out amongst Muslims there is a concept of multiple Qira&#x27;aat(readings) where there are multiple dialects in which the Quran is read. These readings may differ by a couple of letters for a specific word every so often. This was the reason the Quran was compiled into one form during the time of &#x27;Uthmaan, to prevent confusion amongst the common Muslims.<p>Nevertheless these &quot;readings&quot; did not die, but rather continue to thrive to this day. This allows for a broader range of meanings, so it is not something avoided by Muslims rather accepted openly as a part of what they believe was revealed.
duanebalmost 10 years ago
What does this even mean to find it in the University? This is almost more interesting to me than the text itself, which has been remarkably well attested through the ages (or at least, versions of it have been independently attested).
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INTPenisalmost 10 years ago
My interest was piqued so I googled the oldest complete copy of the koran and found this[1].<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.commdiginews.com&#x2F;world-news&#x2F;middle-east&#x2F;worlds-oldest-quran-discovered-and-may-be-linked-to-imam-ali-30011&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.commdiginews.com&#x2F;world-news&#x2F;middle-east&#x2F;worlds-ol...</a>
jay_kyburzalmost 10 years ago
Is it just me or is there something strange about the way this piece is written. Feels like it is written by an bot or somehow optimized for search.<p><pre><code> The manuscript, written in &quot;Hijazi script&quot;, an early form of written Arabic, becomes one of the oldest known fragments of the Koran. Because radiocarbon dating creates a range of possible ages, there is a handful of other manuscripts in public and private collections which overlap. So this makes it impossible to say that any is definitively the oldest. But the latest possible date of the Birmingham discovery - 645 - would put it among the very oldest. </code></pre> Oldest, Oldest Oldest. Ok, I get the picture.
ciesalmost 10 years ago
No mention of what chapters&#x2F;verses? And no digitized images so we can compare it to current mainstream versions...<p>Too bad.
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msoadalmost 10 years ago
It&#x27;s funny how Muslims claim it&#x27;s a &quot;miracle&quot; of Koran that it hasn&#x27;t changed since it was published. Of course it hasn&#x27;t changed, technology was at a point that it was possible to keep a book from forgers but publishing it heavily and also, there were many muslims trying to protect Koran from day one.<p>P.S. I born Muslim so I get to be critical about Islam and I think everyone should be able to do so.
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Nemantalmost 10 years ago
&quot;If it had been from anyone other than God, they would have found much inconsistency in it.&quot; (The Holy Qur&#x27;an, An-Nisa&#x27;; 4:82)<p>&quot;Truly, We have revealed this remembrance, and We shall, for sure, preserve it.&quot; (The Holy Qur&#x27;an, Al-Hijr; 15:9)<p>Digitized version: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;vmr.bham.ac.uk&#x2F;Collections&#x2F;Mingana&#x2F;Islamic_Arabic_1572a&#x2F;Page_1r&#x2F;viewer&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;vmr.bham.ac.uk&#x2F;Collections&#x2F;Mingana&#x2F;Islamic_Arabic_157...</a><p>In case you know how to read arabic: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;tinyurl.com&#x2F;nr5gvz9" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;tinyurl.com&#x2F;nr5gvz9</a>
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scottsheaalmost 10 years ago
Not really an insightful comment but I first read that as Brigham Young University which makes it all that more impactful... and funny