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Review of Nestle water permit neglected for decades

262 pointsby umeboshialmost 10 years ago

18 comments

jotuxalmost 10 years ago
&gt;But the agency’s records clearly show that efforts to review the permit were initiated between 1999 and 2003. Then those efforts suddenly stopped, and nothing in the records indicates exactly why.<p>&gt;Gene Zimmerman, the forest supervisor who was in charge at the time, retired in 2005. He now does paid consulting work for Nestle.<p>&gt;Zimmerman has said he doesn’t see any conflict in working for Nestle in his retirement.<p>I wonder if he sees any conflict working for Nestle before retirement.
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whyenotalmost 10 years ago
As the article mentions, the USFS is underfunded and understaffed. As a result, (and as is also the case with USFWS and NMFS), permit related matters are often &quot;triaged&quot; with items having a low percieved environmental impact (or politically risky, or risk an expensive lawsuit) put off so that limited resources can be spent on more pressing matters.<p>That doesn&#x27;t mean corruption and regulatory capture aren&#x27;t issues, but they aren&#x27;t a complete (or even major) part of the problem.<p>I guess also it doesn&#x27;t bother me too much if drinking water is being extracted from a national forest as these forests are required by statute to be managed for multiple uses including resource extraction. Relatively speaking, siphoning off water for drinking seems like it is likely to be a relatively low impact activity, even when it&#x27;s a bigevilcorporation like Nestle who is doing the extraction.
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dghughesalmost 10 years ago
In BC Canada Nestle is also causing a stink over water use but it&#x27;s not why you think.<p>NAFTA says that once bulk sales of water begin it that&#x27;s it Pandora&#x27;s Box can&#x27;t be shut.<p>People in BC and Canada are worried if Nestle is charge even a small amount that will be seen as a bulk sale of water and then that&#x27;s it game over the US will demand we sell water to the dry western states.<p>Sure it isn&#x27;t exporting it but it is the sale of water to a corporation and it is the water not the service to deliver the water, but that all may be step one to exporting it.
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KevinEldonalmost 10 years ago
Any article about corporate consumption of public water in California feels a little silly without reference to San Francisco&#x27;s $30k&#x2F;year right to Hetch Hetchy. Yosemite Valley&#x27;s neighboring valley, on a national park that every American pays for, is flooded and destroyed and San Francisco doesn&#x27;t even pay enough to even cover the human maintenance of the land, let alone the benefit they get from the water.
sergersalmost 10 years ago
Here in BC Canada, nestle has been tapping our natural water resources for free. They have been tapping a well in hope bc<p>Our government in turn setup a deal where nestle pays $2.25 CAD per million litres of water they extract starting in 2016.<p>They took 265 million litres last year, what a farce, they will only by charged about 600$ a year at the new price... Better than nothing but still... I pay out of my ass for water.<p>Nestle in turn sells bottled water for about $1 to $3 per litre...<p>Recent article on the matter: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbc.ca&#x2F;m&#x2F;news&#x2F;canada&#x2F;british-columbia&#x2F;nestlé-b-c-water-deal-too-cheap-says-ndp-1.2964709" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbc.ca&#x2F;m&#x2F;news&#x2F;canada&#x2F;british-columbia&#x2F;nestlé-b-c-...</a>
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joshuaheardalmost 10 years ago
I have hiked up in these mountains and seen some of the springs Arrowhead uses to get its water from. The ones I have seen are small pipes running from small springs, taking a small amount of the spring water. The San Bernardino mountains are next to LA. I am not an expert, but I don&#x27;t think a large amount of water is used by anyone from these mountains. The US Forest Service probably just thinks it is an insignificant amount of the total water supply to pay tons of money to experts to come up with the required bureaucratic report. It really wasn&#x27;t until the media starting referring to Arrowhead Mountain water company as &quot;Nestle&quot; that it started getting any coverage.
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tracker1almost 10 years ago
I think if funding is an issue, they should simply shut Nestle&#x27;s operations down.. their permit is expired, period... if they want a new permit, part of that deal would they should have to fund said impact study. It&#x27;s really not a difficult problem with a difficult solution here.<p>It&#x27;s pretty obviously a combination of apathy and corruption.
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nuggetalmost 10 years ago
&#x27;&#x27;The answer to 99 out of 100 questions is money.&#x27;&#x27;
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panzaglalmost 10 years ago
A couple of things all the &#x27;experts&#x27; in how the government works here seem to have overlooked-<p>1) &#x27;Quid pro quo&#x27; is a lot harder than it seems- it requires Zimmerman to commit a crime, then trust that Nestle will take care of him after. This is pretty rare.<p>2) Zimmerman does have value to Nestle, though, in the form of knowledge of USFS processes, like the renewal process. If he weren&#x27;t hired by Nestle I&#x27;m sure he would be hired by another company for this knowledge.<p>3) If any corruption did occur, it was probably in the form of one of Nestle&#x27;s senators tapping the shoulder of the director of the USFS, leading to direct or indirect pressure to not review the permits. This could be very subtle (i.e. budget is cut, word comes down from on high that something else is highest priority, and if it ain&#x27;t broke don&#x27;t fix it).
joshualmost 10 years ago
Here&#x27;s an idea: You cannot take material gain that would have been illegal in your employ for 2x your time of employ, or four years, whichever is longer.<p>&gt; Gene Zimmerman, the forest supervisor who was in charge at the time, retired in 2005. He now does paid consulting work for Nestle.
kw71almost 10 years ago
I&#x27;d like to use this precedent to drive with an expired driving license. It&#x27;s discriminatory to allow some parties to continue engaging in licensed activity while penalizing others for &quot;the same conduct.&quot;
prbuckleyalmost 10 years ago
Government agencies have a tendancy to be incentivized to pick on small guys who are easier&#x2F;simpler to harass. The beurocrat gets the same amount of credit for closing a small case as closing a lrage complicated case. For example this article cites the forest service reviewing water permits for a couple of small cabins and requiring them to install tanks at a substantial cost instead of going after Nestle who is pumping 10&#x27;s of millions of gallons a year.
kyledrakealmost 10 years ago
It&#x27;s amazing to watch one of the most sprawled-out car cultures I&#x27;ve ever experienced bogeyman water bottling and almond production for their CO2-powered drought. Absolutely amazing.
blondie9xalmost 10 years ago
Government failed us yet again. Remind me, why am I being forced to pay 30-35% of my paycheck to these idiots taking payouts and working like fat slugs off my dollar? This is why the climate is so screwed up. Government isn&#x27;t responsive. You have to make industry pay true cost for use of finite resources. Similar to taxing the finite capacity of the atmosphere to absorb greenhouse gases. Externalities should be priced in economics. Duh? You build a model to computer GDP but you don&#x27;t take off future survival. Then what is growth but short winded elations. Anthropocene needs to wise up before sixth extinction sets us free, brutally.
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beedogsalmost 10 years ago
Heh. Once the TPP comes into effect, Nestle will be able to sue the USFS for &quot;loss of future projected revenue&quot; if they ever actually enforce the contract end date.
novaleafalmost 10 years ago
&gt; A pipe running from the top of the San Bernardino mountains carries mountain spring water to Nestle North America&#x27;s tanks below where its then transported to Ontario for bottling.<p>wait, let me get this straight: a pipe runs from the top of the San Bernardio mountains carying moutain spring water to tanks below where it&#x27;s transported for bottling?!?!?!<p>(<i>joke&#x2F;sarcasm</i>) That line is pasted like 5 or 6 times as the tagline for most the images in the article. Talk about repetitive!
MichaelCrawfordalmost 10 years ago
I commenced my boycott of Nestle products the very same day their head honcho asserted that water is not a human right. There are many other good reason not to purchase Nestle&#x27;s wares it&#x27;s just that that single statement drove home my understanding that Nestle employers and stockholders are notorious criminals.<p>My boycott is difficult not just because I enjoy many Nestle products but because it is not always easy to determine what products Nestle actually makes. I have learned to read product labels very very carefully.<p>Many fine foods and beverages that were once prepared by other, independent businesses that are now Nestle subsidiaries. Even if Nestle does not own the manufacture it distributes their products.<p>Just for grins, read the ingredients from a few Nestle foods soldin the United States, fly to Geneva then read the ingredients of their Swiss products. One of the greatest scams in all of human history resulted in American children drinking nonfat milk.<p>Here in Vancouver I drink &quot;Swiss Chocolate Milk&quot;, made in the United States b Alpenrose with whole milk.<p>For a parent to feed their children nonfat milk is child abuse.
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steveaxalmost 10 years ago
Forget it Jake, it&#x27;s Chinatown [1]<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cadillac_Desert" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cadillac_Desert</a>