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Gurus of 90s Web Design: Zeldman, Siegel, Nielsen

419 포인트작성자: panic5일 전

49 comments

vanschelven5일 전
This article put Nielsen in the corner of "technically correct", but the influence he had on me at least was a strong focus on "empirically correct". i.e. doing actual tests (with humans) on what kind of things work to convey information. He did this to the detriment of "looking good", which is why his stuff ended up looking "hopelessly outdated", but I think he was on the right side of the fight.
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vr465일 전
I enjoyed Zeldman&#x27;s A List Apart, and had no idea that he was so old at a time that we were all in our mid-twenties, I thought he was our cohort :D<p>Nielsen I can honestly leave, maybe he did help millions of people have easier to use sites, but I found him rigid and boring; especially rigid with his prescriptive approach to sites - &quot;the home page should have these links&quot;. I think Philip Greenspun skewered him at some point.<p>I understand why a lot of this was like this, as people wanted answers and direction, and were prepared to pay a lot of money for it, and he was a consultant doing consultancy. People have always wanted answers and direction, and will pay for it, but in a rapidly-changing world, the answers have a short shelf-life. Maybe that&#x27;s why he took his site down a long time ago, aware that his maps were getting very out-of-date.<p>Still, fun times, what a great age it was.
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Brajeshwar5일 전
&gt; Jeffrey Zeldman — who turned 42 in early 1997<p>I’m today years old, realizing that Jeffrey Zeldman was 40+ in 1997. I always thought he was kinda just a few years older than us in the early 2000s.<p>“View Source” of their websites was an educational time well spent. Warning: In some regions, “View Source” may be illegal. Please use it at your own discretion.<p>Starting my career in the early 2000s, and my design and other Flash Works were on the Internet - Zeldman, Siegel, and a lot of others were the heroes. Nielsen was the villain. By the mid-2000s, I had done extensive work for clinics and physicians, delving into accessibility, HIPAA compliance, and other related areas. By then, Nielsen and the likes became the heroes. :-)
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donatj5일 전
I yearn for the early days when I could just &quot;View Source&quot; to see how something neat on a page worked.<p>Now there&#x27;s rarely anything neat, and when there is you can poke around with the inspector but it&#x27;s likely buried deep in some obfuscated JS you&#x27;ll never decipher.
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ChrisMarshallNY5일 전
Another seminal book for me, was <i>Web Pages That Suck</i>. They actually used to throw shade on <i>Creating Killer Web Sites</i>. Lots of big egos, back then.<p>I learned quite a bit from that book. I think Flanders may still have a site. I was on his mailing list, but I haven’t heard anything for the last decade or so.
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theGeatZhopa5일 전
haha I still have &quot;creating killer websites&quot; in my bookshelf. It was a quick buy, never thought of it to become a classic. Nevertheless - it was such an experience to see websites designed the way the book shows. But, not practical INHO. In my eyes, it was just a replication of print media. If one remembers how coldfusion worked at that time, or, dreamweaver -&gt; some things are clearly borrowed from quark express (DTP software). Like to remember the times, though. And never went the road of designing sites.
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tunnuz5일 전
Zeldman was one of my heroes in the 00s. I would argue that the list could also include Eric Meyer (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Eric_A._Meyer" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Eric_A._Meyer</a>).
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whalesalad5일 전
I began my career learning from these folks. I loved sites like A List Apart.<p>I got star struck one day when Zeldman emailed me asking for an enhancement to a WordPress plugin I had created. Felt like I’d come full circle.
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rglover5일 전
I badly miss this era. It was so happy, positive, and innocent. People were really just having fun making stuff and teaching each other. Nowadays it all feels very fake and vanity-driven.<p>Will never forget learning HTML + CSS by reading these guys books and constantly refreshing forums like Designer&#x27;s Talk.
tclancy5일 전
I always wonder how old I will be before I forget you could only nest tables 7 levels deep in Netscape Navigator 4.
eadmund5일 전
&gt; Useit didn&#x27;t change its design over the years. By the Web 2.0 period, it was seen my most in the web design profession as being hopelessly outdated.<p>Oddly enough, I much prefer it to the corporate NNGroup site. And that last version reminds me a bit of HN itself. Simple, clean and usable — really simple, really clean and really usable, not mindlessly aping a trend (and getting it wrong) but intelligently setting its own trend.<p>I wish more sites adopted that style of design.
gdubs5일 전
Any article on 90s Web Design gurus would not be complete without at least a mention of Jeffery Veen. HotWired completely defined the aesthetic of the 90s web, breaking all sorts of conventions to create something totally new.<p>Some point along the way I lost my copy of HotWired Style: Principles of Web Design – so I picked up a new one. It&#x27;s an amazing time capsule of what that time was like, and even if the technology has changed it&#x27;s still so interesting to me from a standpoint of working within constraints, and understanding a new medium for itself rather than just as a thing to host the previous medium.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.goodreads.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;show&#x2F;1864" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.goodreads.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;show&#x2F;1864</a>
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oldpersonintx25일 전
don&#x27;t forget the greatest webdevs of the late 90s...Larry and Sergey<p>people now don&#x27;t seem to appreciate how much Google&#x27;s radically simple homepage changed the web<p>look at web design right before Google took off - it was always about adding <i>more</i> to the page, and most sites were a mess<p>Larry and Sergey showed that radical simplicity was literally worth a trillion dollars
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Maro5일 전
Such nostalgia — in the seconf half of the 90s I was 15-18 years old, and I was reading these books trying to become a kick-ass &quot;Web Designer&#x2F;Developer&quot;. I quickly realized &quot;Web Designer&quot; is not for me, I have no sense for pixels, I need to focus on the &quot;Web Developer&quot; side. Learn &quot;DHTML&quot; and how to make things work on both IE and Netscape! IE back then had JScript, which was not exactly Javascript, or EcmaScript, which is what you said if you wanted to flex :)
ngneer5일 전
I was doing web design in the early days. I recall the thrill of thinking how the possibilities were endless.<p>This article reminds me of &quot;A List Apart&quot;. That website is still running, incidentally.
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krupan5일 전
Such nostalgia, and such a reminder of how awful so many websites are now with pop ups asking you to subscribe and&#x2F;or give feedback before you have even had a chance to read anything and content that jumps around as JavaScript and images (ads) load. I feel like the web has regressed massively in the last few years, and we don&#x27;t seem to have anyone talking about it like those guys did.
cloudpushers5일 전
Ugh, such a good read as we enter an era where we kind of have to build interactions from first principals or else we&#x27;ll be stuck with a clunky search bar and lackluster AI adoption.<p>Perhaps Nielsen&#x27;s practices will enjoy a resurgence as it&#x27;s easier to make personal sites for all sorts of different, non-commercial entities and happenings.
H1Supreme5일 전
Although this article references the 90&#x27;s, it reminded me of the truly vibrant web design scene of the early 2000&#x27;s. I was a graphic design (print work back then) student &#x2F; early in my career at the time. Sites like k10k, Newstoday, Praystation, and many others jump-started my interest in writing software by way of web design. Flash especially.<p>There was a network of sites (like those mentioned above), that had feeds of interesting work done on the web. Much of it was purely an exercise in creativity. The single 1024x768 resolution target let folks go wild without the constraints of responsiveness that we see today.<p>While I realize that the web had to evolve, I have a lot of nostalgia for web design from those days. The &quot;design&quot; part of it was really centered around artistic expression, and still had a lot of influence from graphic design.
subpixel5일 전
“His current website, cuttingthroughthenoise.net, shows that he now has a variety of business and personal interests.”<p>That is a funny way to not mention that he is a hard-core climate change denialist.
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rkaregaran5일 전
Designing with Web Standards was the bible during the web&#x27;s golden era. Peer&#x27;s minds were being blown that we could lay stuff out without tables and spacers.
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qgin5일 전
My late 90s web designing life was based entirely around Zeldman&#x27;s &quot;Pardon My Icons&quot; collection: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zeldman.com&#x2F;icon1.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zeldman.com&#x2F;icon1.html</a>
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tiffanyh5일 전
I&#x27;m surprised <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;alistapart.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;alistapart.com</a> wasn&#x27;t mentioned.
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telesilla5일 전
&gt;invisible tables and single-pixel GIFs<p>The instant marker of my generation
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yarone5일 전
Nielsen&#x27;s &quot;Usability Engineering&quot; was my FIRST EVER Amazon.com purchase in June 1998.
dbg314155일 전
Krug belongs on this list.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Don%27t_Make_Me_Think" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Don%27t_Make_Me_Think</a>
atum474일 전
Back in the 90s I used to host my websites on geocities. We had this trick of displaying the website in a two frames layout, 0% top 100% bottom. That way the publicity banner would be invisible. Unfortunately none of my websites got archived successfully, part because of that.<p>I made a fan website for the movie Matrix, I wish I could see it today. It was awesome. Lots and lots of effects.
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erikig5일 전
Every time I work on a website&#x27;s UI&#x2F;UX I have that image of Zeldman staring at me from &quot;Designing with web standards&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;upload.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wikipedia&#x2F;en&#x2F;thumb&#x2F;d&#x2F;df&#x2F;Designing_with_web_standards.png&#x2F;250px-Designing_with_web_standards.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;upload.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wikipedia&#x2F;en&#x2F;thumb&#x2F;d&#x2F;df&#x2F;Designi...</a>
alphadelphi5일 전
Great books. One of the authors looks like now is a climate denier, so I wonder myself about the existance of technical approach detached from the scientific one
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rchaud5일 전
I liked Zeldman&#x27;s designs and writing style the best of these 3 guys. Imagine my shock a few years ago when I visited his site again and saw a hideous Wordpress default theme on it. The article mentions that there&#x27;ll be a new design coming soon, but I can&#x27;t help but feel Automattic forced him to use their in-house design when he started working there.
jongjong5일 전
I remember writing web pages using invisible tables and other HTML hacks. I also remember later using CSS hacks and different properties for each major browser... Sometimes you would use underscores in the CSS property name so that it would be ignored by some browsers and not others. You had to test almost every styling change you made with at least 3 different browsers. The standard wasn&#x27;t being followed strictly by IE which was dominant at the time.<p>Reading this article reminds me of how many opportunities there were to build useful tools and quickly gain traction and grow a community. Nowadays everything including people&#x27;s attention has been monopolized and growing a community is not feasible for everyone. This rubs salt into the wound that it&#x27;s also much harder to create viable, differentiated products due to high competition.
levmiseri5일 전
Lovely window into the history.<p>Sometimes I wonder how I (or generally people of that time) would react to seeing the modern web. At least — the &#x27;good&#x27; modern web and design. Awe? Confusion? Understanding that this is the future in the very same way that we understand that &#x27;that&#x27; was the past?
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KaiserPro5일 전
Flash was great, but abused to do bad things (like all good tech)<p>The killer was the iphone not being powerful enough&#x2F;having enough ram to run the plugin, and adobe refusing to make concessions.<p>What it got right:<p>Design once, looks the same <i>anywhere</i><p>reasonably powerful scripting language<p>Vectors as a first party drawing primitive<p>abstracted OS hooks<p>This was it&#x27;s downfall, because it was for the time heavy to run. Combined with advertisers wanting rich flashy adverts, meant it became the bane of people&#x27;s life.<p>There is still no replacement that is easy to author, and works pretty much anywhere. Sure there are loads of JS frameworks that sorta do one part of what flash did, but none of them have the rich editor that allowed you to have such creative freedom.<p>The closest thing to it now is unity.
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dzink4일 전
They paved the way to the semantic web, which paved the way to Google extracting the data and building its own maps, shopping, and answers, and ratings and images and a bunch of other experiences on top of it and taking over traffic that would have gone to the web sites instead. Then AI scraped the same and now web traffic is becoming even less web. Flash made the web an experience - a place to visit and explore way before the metaverse. Web standards extracted the data. Now it’s pre-chewed and digested down to a AI answer.
mgr865일 전
&gt; I&#x27;d argue that his pragmatic approach to web design — combining web standards with design flair — was what won out during the 90s and early 2000s. Certainly, of the three web design gurus in 1997, Zeldman’s website back then was by far the most interesting and exotic. --<p>I really looked to him at that time. I would sneak away during lunch my senior year of high school to read his new Web Standards book. I still regularly check A list Apart, albeit its seldom updated these days. But his approach melded nicely with the other things from XML land I had been reading at the time.
bluenose695일 전
The colour choices in the image with caption beginning &quot;Jeffrey Zeldman&#x27;s homepage, March 1997&quot; are hard on my eyes. However, the point might have been to show folks how to exert control over colours and fonts, as opposed to actually communicating. The 90s were quite a different thing than whatever we call the present decade.<p>A big annoyance of the early web was all the stupid blinking text and pointless little animations. Luckily we&#x27;ve moved past them. Of course, today it&#x27;s all about ads, which is the tip of a spear that is quite unpleasant.<p>Plus ça change.
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hbarka5일 전
I think it was more than three, I don’t recall the reference of 3 horsemen being used. Lynda Weinman and Seth Godin were influential (Godin from a marketing and SEO perspective). Also Krug and Allsop.
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ExMachina735일 전
Lets be real. The pinnacle of web design was clearly zombo.com
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90s_dev5일 전
Can anyone help me find a specific HTML book? It was the first one I ever read, I&#x27;ve been looking for it on Amazon every few years and haven&#x27;t found it yet.<p>It must have been released around 1995 or so. It used Mosaic browser throughout all the examples, which looked so different than the IE3 that I was using. There was a heavy focus on forms and controls. And it was hundreds of pages. Familiar to anyone?
adregan5일 전
The irony that web art history (design, ux, &amp;c.) is so much more difficult to study and appreciate—compared to traditional forms—when it should be the easiest, always surprises me.<p>I try not to profess in mixed company that young designers should know the history of the web (it’s so young after all!), lest I be pegged an old man yelling at clouds. However, there was a time when there was a really interesting intersection of print designers coming to work on the nascent web, asking for the moon, and web developers teasing out compromises because the platform was so limited. Now that the platform is so capable that it could accomplish those designs, we don’t have designers capable of imagining it.<p>I’d love for a designer to ask me to do something different for a change of pace. There have been many neat APIs that have slowly made their way to CSS over the years sitting unused.
JimDabell5일 전
Some random asides on this slice of nostalgia:<p>&gt; Note that the typical display size at the time was 800x600 pixels, so this and other websites would likely have been designed for those dimensions.<p>This was before responsive design existed. First we designed for 640×480, then we designed for 800×600, then we designed for 1024×768. Bad developers would design for wider viewports and leave people with smaller screens to scroll horizontally to see everything. Slightly better designers would design for the narrower viewports and leave huge gutters down either the right side or both sides for people with wider screens. Best practice was “fluid design”, where you would define widths in percentages to adapt to the screen width, but it was difficult to get designers on board.<p>&gt; But if the web was a “consumer playground” now, it was still one with many constraints. As Zeldman told budding web designers, “the accepted wisdom is to use as few images as possible, and make them as small as you can (small in file size, though not necessarily in height or width).”<p>It wasn’t just file size. The early web was limited in terms of colours too. There were 216 “web safe” colours.<p>&gt; the book advocated for “hacks” to HTML in order to make websites more visually appealing. The primary hacks were using invisible tables and single-pixel GIFs to help control layout.<p>There were a <i>lot</i> of weird hacks. One was to put many &lt;title&gt; elements in your document, and Netscape 2 would flip between them in the window’s title bar to make a crude animation. The title bar because browsers didn’t have tabs back then.<p>&gt; CSS support from the two main browsers at the start of 1997 was patchy at best. Internet Explorer 3.0 was the closest to supporting the W3C standard for CSS, but it was buggy and inconsistent.<p>It was basically nonexistent apart from very minor things. Internet Explorer 3 didn’t even understand the em unit and just treated it as pixels, so if you set something to font-size: 1.5em, it wasn’t 50% larger than the parent element’s text, it was invisibly small.<p>&gt; As for Netscape, its 3.0 browser had poor CSS support. In fact, the company even tried to create an alternative to CSS, with a JavaScript-powered styling mechanism called JavaScript-Based Style Sheets (JSSS).<p>Netscape 4 transcoded CSS to JSSS on the fly, which had the side-effect that when you disabled JavaScript, it also disabled CSS.<p>&gt; For all their differences, CSS and Flash did have similar goals: both aimed to expand the state of web design on the web.<p>Before web fonts were supported by browsers, one fairly common technique was sIFR, which looked for specially marked up text on the page and replaced the text with Flash applets rendering the text in an embedded font. It was pretty ugly loading and caused bunch of problems, but the designers didn’t mind as long as it let them use custom fonts.<p>It was a pretty hellish time to be a web developer, but exciting as well. The browser bugs and incompatibilities were a thousand times worse than they are today and could really ruin multiple days at a time on the most trivial stuff, but it was also a period of great inventiveness and variety.
absurdo5일 전
On the flip side, I cherish my torn and beaten up copy of The New Masters of Flash. RIP Macromedia.
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mjaniczek5일 전
I&#x27;d love to see this sort of design history, but for old terminal&#x2F;text-mode GUIs (TUIs?). I&#x27;m too young to have experienced it outside of the odd DOS cash desk at a grocery store. Does any book&#x2F;website exist about these? VT220 library systems etc...
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djtriptych4일 전
huge names. As a UI engineer of this era (late 90s early 2ks) I also read Raskin and Tufte. 37 signals had a lot of good writing in the early 2000s. But great set of UI&#x2F;HCI thinkers for anyone interested.
replwoacause5일 전
Great article, a nice trip down memory lane. I still have my copy of “The Zen of CSS Design: Visual Enlightenment for the Web” somewhere. I know Dave Shea wasn’t mentioned, but this book was my intro into design on the earlyish web.
WorldPeas5일 전
My two favorites in the 2000s (when these books were kind of dated already) were Lynda&#x27;s books&#x2F;cds and Steve Krug&#x27;s &quot;don&#x27;t make me think&quot;
t1234s5일 전
Seeing that Flash screen in the article gave me PTSD
p3rls4일 전
Is the author about to hit 40 out of curiosity?
fitsumbelay5일 전
I&#x27;d&#x27;ve put Celement Mok on this list as well ...
plun95일 전
Now David Siegel has changed his opinion on climate change. He created a website with independent climate research: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cuttingthroughthenoise.net" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cuttingthroughthenoise.net</a>
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