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Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

87 балловавтор: isaacfrondоколо 19 часов назад

8 comments

helpfulclippyоколо 15 часов назад
I&#x27;ve seen a few articles on this now. They keep calling it a &quot;secret&quot; message and &quot;hieroglyphic cryptography,&quot; but then talk about how sufficiently literate people are supposed to understand it, and the content is along the lines of &quot;The god-king cannot be dethroned&quot; and &quot;Make offerings to the gods.&quot; Nothing about this sounds like it was intended to be kept secret or confidential from anyone.<p>This seems more like fancy typesetting than cryptography, combined with an awareness that the writing at the top of a big tall obelisk will only be readable from a distance.
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Lucоколо 15 часов назад
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.progres.net.eg&#x2F;plusieurs-messages-caches-sur-lobelisque-de-la-concorde&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.progres.net.eg&#x2F;plusieurs-messages-caches-sur-lob...</a><p>In this article in French, they mention hieroglyphs encoded in the way arms and legs are drawn of a figure on the throne of Tutankhamun, and that only 6 Egyptologists in the whole worlds are able to decode them.<p>Hmmm, I wonder how mainstream these ideas are? Do other Egyptologists respect them?
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bhickeyоколо 16 часов назад
You can change the link: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.artnet.com&#x2F;art-world&#x2F;hidden-messages-paris-luxor-obelisk-2636508" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.artnet.com&#x2F;art-world&#x2F;hidden-messages-paris-luxo...</a>
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DemocracyFTW2около 6 часов назад
I must say I&#x27;m a little unhappy with how this thread has been usurped to be not about the writing on the obelisk but the appropriateness of it being in Paris. The latter is an important question with no easy answers but completely unrelated to the former.
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Trasmattaоколо 15 часов назад
Are the same messages on the obelisk in Central Park? I believe it&#x27;s essentially the same obelisk. I walk by that one at least once a week. Pretty sad how much the NYC climate has damaged it, though, as opposed to the desert climate it originated from.
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BurnGpuBurnоколо 11 часов назад
Would they ever give the thing back though?
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DemocracyFTW2около 7 часов назад
While hieroglyphic cryptography is a thing (as is BTW &quot;sportive orthography&quot; in Ancient Egyptian), this is not it. I am all for acknowledging that Ancient Egyptian art is often merging writing and depiction in a way that escapes the unprepared who would point to a prominent figure in a grave wall decoration and say &#x27;this is a picture&#x27;, then point to some hieroglyphs and say &#x27;that is writing&#x27;. It&#x27;s in principle not wrong but misses the point that frequently the choice of hieroglyphs, their orientation and variations in orthography correspond to details of the depicted subject, while the pictures can often be read out, either by describing the participants and their actions, or by naming the parts.<p>As for the latter, there&#x27;s a statue of &quot;Ramesses II (Dyn XIX) as a Child&quot;[1] which shows Horus as a falcon with the sun (<i>rꜥ</i>) on his breast, a child (<i>ms</i>) beneath it, in his hand a sedge plant (<i>sw</i>). Naming the parts—sun, child, sedge—in this order gives <i>rꜥmssw</i>, vocalized <i>raꜥmissaw</i>, roughly maybe approximately [raʕ&#x27;missaw], in any event the very name of Ramesses, meaning &quot;He is &#x2F; was born &#x2F; brought forth by Ra &#x2F; the Sun&quot;. Note that you&#x27;ll have to choose to omit <i>ḥr</i> &quot;Horus&quot; although the falcon dominates the sculpture, and that the sedge does not represent a plant but, by virtue of sounding like it, the 3rd person suffix <i>sw</i> &quot;he&quot;, so there&#x27;s some guesswork involved. All said, it&#x27;s a fine example of a &quot;rebus&quot;.<p>Neither rebus reading nor pictorial description are commonly classified as cryptographic orthography in Egyptology.<p>The statue demonstrates nicely how acutely aware of their language, their artistic traditions and their writing Egyptian artists were. When we look at the depiction of Pharaoh and Amun on the obelisk as explained by Olette-Pelletier, however, we hardly see any of this. Yes, an arm with an offering on the palm of the hand was often used to write <i>dy</i> &quot;to give&quot;, but usually those offerings are triangular bread loaves, not round <i>nw</i> vessels. Yes, the hieroglyph for &quot;ḥtp&quot; looks like a flat rectangle but, again, with a bread offering on it which is missing from the flat rectangle that pharaoh is kneeling on.<p>I really wonder what the fuzz is about; clearly it&#x27;s a picture of the king giving offering to the god, and all he does is read out the picture. This is something that you can do with a lot of Egyptian art: there&#x27;s the king, you know him by the distinctive crown, and there&#x27;s Amun, which you know again by his distinctive headdress sporting two long feathers. The king is kneeling because he&#x27;s offering, and he has his arms stretched out presenting stuff because he&#x27;s, well, giving. The king is giving things to the god. What part of that was not known before, what part of that is cryptographic?<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;File:Ramesses_II_as_child.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;File:Ramesses_II_as_child.jpg</a>
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nunobritoоколо 14 часов назад
The news article was a true click-bait.<p>The messages were not secret at all, they were just written on the face of the obelisk that faces the river. Meaning that only visitors by boat would read them when docking rather than the poor pedestrians using the normal road.
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