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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

175 点作者 ennuihenry将近 10 年前

28 条评论

rdtsc将近 10 年前
&gt; But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero.<p>I say don&#x27;t escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a &quot;resource&quot; just like it says in the name.<p>There have been many cases I&#x27;ve heard (personally and from HN comments) where someone would go to HR, complain about harassment by their manager, get assurance of confidentiality, and the next thing you know the manager is told right away. Or the person who complained gets punished instead.<p>Now you can try to go public and force its hand to basically realign HR&#x27;s interest (protect the company) with yours (you get heard and the problem is fixed). But that won&#x27;t be forgotten in the long term.
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seibelj将近 10 年前
I&#x27;ve been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it.<p>These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can&#x27;t feel bad for them. If you don&#x27;t want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won&#x27;t make you work through your vacation. This isn&#x27;t North Korea, Bezos isn&#x27;t going to throw you in a reeducation camp.<p>I will keep ordering from Amazon because they provide the best service. Simple as that.
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tajen将近 10 年前
Jeff Bezos encourages employees a &quot;careful read&quot; of the NYT article and the read of &quot;a very different take by a current Amazonian&quot; on LinkedIn.<p>What I see is a company with a big PR department who hasn&#x27;t succeeded to spin positive stories about their HR in newspapers. We&#x27;ll see in the next months whether they prop up their game.<p>Besides, if you face a difficulty with your work environment, don&#x27;t talk to HR™. They are paid to exclude any PR hazard from the company.<p>NB: Moderator&#x2F;dang, please merge with <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10072753" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10072753</a>
joesmo将近 10 年前
Sounds like Bezos is just doing damage control. The original article is somewhat interesting but hardly novel. I&#x27;ve never talked to a single person who worked at Amazon who had anything positive to say. You have recruiters recruiting for Amazon who are basically saying, &quot;Do not work there.&quot; They are being paid on commission to get you to work there and they&#x27;re telling you what a horrible place to work it is, killing any chance of moving forward. I find that quite telling of what kind of place Amazon is.
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wpietri将近 10 年前
For years I&#x27;ve had an academic interest in alternative religions. (As an atheist, I find them endlessly fascinating, as it lets you see more of how the dominant religions came to be.) One of those most interesting things I&#x27;ve come across related to that was the ABCDEF:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.neopagan.net&#x2F;ABCDEF.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.neopagan.net&#x2F;ABCDEF.html</a><p>It was put together decades ago by a pagan who wanted to help people see the difference between people who were up to something new and actually dangerous cults.<p>The NYT article made me haul it out again and do some scoring, and then run through and score a number of the tech companies I&#x27;m familiar with. It was a very interesting exercise.
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rm_-rf_slash将近 10 年前
This kind of thing reminded me of when Eric Schmidt justified Google&#x27;s reputationally low pay by saying &quot;people don&#x27;t work at Google for the money, they do it to change the world!&quot;<p>Of course, Google&#x27;s stock made him a billionaire.<p>To me this problem seems to root itself in the absurdity of equity percentages. How is it one who comes to the company a year after founding can work the same 10-12 hour days as a founder and yet see maybe 1% in options they have to pay for while founders expect 15% and up for being there at the beginning? Seems all right when the company is young and the risk is high, but what ends up happening is that the fresh blood 10,20 years on has to fight for scraps while the now-wealthy founders can enjoy their work knowing they could quit tomorrow and never have to lift a finger again.<p>White collar Walmart could pay its employees squarely to compensate for their mental health and social lives, but they act almost allergic to profits as long as they can continue stock offerings to keep prices at a minimum.
outside1234将近 10 年前
And like clockwork, there is the PR reaction. Whatever you do, don&#x27;t write to HR or Jeff - that is amateur hour stuff to smoke out the problem people.
sagivo将近 10 年前
I&#x27;m in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don&#x27;t know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.
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dataker将近 10 年前
All of this discussion brings me to the Stanford Prison Experiment<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Stanford_prison_experiment" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Stanford_prison_experiment</a><p>In such hierarchical systems, the issue goes beyond abuse itself, bringing deinvidualization and loss of personal identity.<p>That partially explains why some workers won&#x27;t leave the company even for a similar&#x2F;higher salary.
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eip将近 10 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;chitchcock&#x2F;1281611" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;chitchcock&#x2F;1281611</a><p>&quot;Ha, ha! You 150-odd ex-Amazon folks here will of course realize immediately that #7 was a little joke I threw in, because Bezos most definitely does not give a shit about your day.&quot;<p>&quot;We&#x27;re talking about a guy who in all seriousness has said on many public occasions that people should be paying him to work at Amazon. He hands out little yellow stickies with his name on them, reminding people &quot;who runs the company&quot; when they disagree with him. The guy is a regular... well, Steve Jobs, I guess. Except without the fashion or design sense. Bezos is super smart; don&#x27;t get me wrong. He just makes ordinary control freaks look like stoned hippies.&quot;<p>&quot;At this point they don&#x27;t even do it out of fear of being fired. I mean, they&#x27;re still afraid of that; it&#x27;s pretty much part of daily life there, working for the Dread Pirate Bezos and all.&quot;
qihqi将近 10 年前
As an exAmazonian I think Amazon treated me decently. I ultimately left for some place that treat me even better (with free food and better pay); but I did not believe that I am entitled to those perks. Judging by life of the few Amazonians I know personally, most of them agree with me. I only know one person who complained heavily about Amazon and it is more about his team and having a crappy boss than about the company.
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OnleMeMeMe将近 10 年前
As if Jeff is reading jeff@amazon.com - would be the first enterprise CEO I know who reads his mail instead of a web of (personal) assistants.
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beauzero将近 10 年前
I think the point is being missed. As long as Amazon has &quot;interesting&quot; problems to solve they will get good people (look at what PhD candidates will suffer). If they don&#x27;t then only those who can&#x27;t leave will be left behind. I know this is cynical but it is also why I love this field so much. I look for interesting problems to solve...not huge benefits. Money just doesn&#x27;t get me up in the morning. Will I die poor...maybe...its not a big concern because I love what I do.<p>Keeping it &quot;interesting&quot; is the problem that needs to be solved at Amazon. So far they have been very successful at that.
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kdamken将近 10 年前
I&#x27;m always blown away when I read things like this:<p>&quot;Even many Amazonians who have worked on Wall Street and at start-ups say the workloads at the new South Lake Union campus can be extreme: marathon conference calls on Easter Sunday and Thanksgiving, criticism from bosses for spotty Internet access on vacation, and hours spent working at home most nights or weekends.&quot;<p>Is this something people are proud of? You&#x27;re working for a shipping company, how do you get that brainwashed that you sign your life away like that? I understand as you move up the ranks in seniority more is expected of you, but I&#x27;m always surprised by the lack of self respect and boundaries people have for themselves in professional environments.
ArtDev将近 10 年前
Most folks know that Amazon warehouses are abusive. Why did it take Mr. Bezos so long to figure this out?<p>He deserves the benefit of the doubt, but its hard to believe he didn&#x27;t already know.
vadym909将近 10 年前
To the people that say an employee should just quit- it isn&#x27;t that easy. 1. While it may be good for your resume to show you got selected by AMZN, the reverse is it hurts your resume to show you only lasted a few months which may imply it was a hiring mistake and you couldn&#x27;t cut it. 2. If you took a big relocation package or sign-on bonus, you may feel inclined to stick it out even if it not healthy to not have to pay back and to deflect #1.
otterley将近 10 年前
I&#x27;m actually pleased with Mr. Bezos&#x27; response. He doesn&#x27;t deny any of the stories in the article, and he doesn&#x27;t try to explain any of them away. His attitude strikes me as one of a problem-solver and one who cares about his company&#x27;s reputation. I can&#x27;t recall the last time I heard the CEO of a large company say publicly, &quot;if you&#x27;ve been treated this way, reach out to me personally.&quot;
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zeruch将近 10 年前
...except for Jeff&#x27;s own habits. Now I don&#x27;t actually have a bad view of Amazon on the whole, but Bezos and his personality is well known for many years as demanding to the point of monomaniacal, and often cowing of others. That isn&#x27;t just taking a pot shot, that&#x27;s a repeated observation from many people over many years. It&#x27;s like saying Larry Ellison likes boats or Scott McNealy hates dentists.
webwanderings将近 10 年前
The second last paragraph there, is really strange! It almost sounds like as if, he&#x27;d rather people leave if they don&#x27;t like it.
dredmorbius将近 10 年前
Bezos needs to buy some Robert Anton Wilson from himself.<p>Celine&#x27;s Second Law: Accurate communication is possible only in a non-punishing situation.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Celine%27s_laws" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Celine%27s_laws</a>
backtoyoujim将近 10 年前
This just reaffirms my prognostication that Bezos and Clarkson will end in fisticuffs.
fsloth将近 10 年前
A particularly fitting past discussion in HN about among other things Amazon:<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4195136" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4195136</a>
quotha将近 10 年前
Jeff needs to read the cluetrain manifesto (again), <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cluetrain.com&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cluetrain.com&#x2F;index.html</a>
MCRed将近 10 年前
Escalate to HR? That&#x27;s exactly what I did.<p>Jeff is spinning his typical BS. My boss was abusive, drove off %70 of the team and was dealing drugs to other employees in the PacMed garage. He lied to me many times, and I started documenting it.<p>I went to HR about it, trying to get support so I could transfer out to a team at AWS, where I knew the manager and he had offered me a job.<p>The HR person assured me that everything that I told her would be kept confidential. She insisted I tell her what was going on with my boss, and thus why I wanted to leave. I did tell her, and she then turned around and told my boss all of it. (I didn&#x27;t tell her he was dealing drugs, I actually felt physically vulnerable to him because he had a violent temper-- his training was to be a prison guard and that&#x27;s what he wanted to be before somehow he was hired at Amazon to manage programmers despite having difficulty even with simple things like spreadsheets and Excel.)<p>The HR at Amazon is an organization that is a big part of the problem. After she told my boss they started coming up with sudden complaint about my performance and scheduled a meeting with the HR person.. who then talked bout the things I had told her in confidence, in front of my boss (though I knew he already knew) as if there had never been any reason for me to expect confidence.<p>Also, I worked with Jeff Bezos on enough occasions that he knew who I was, and would say hello by name in the hallway. The idea that i could have gone to him directly with a complaint about my boss is asinine in the extreme. He would have passed it on to HR and it would have been the same thing.<p>He might have cared about the drug dealing thing ,but only because it put the company at risk.<p>The lack of empathy, and the rest of the employee hostile corporate culture ORIGINATES with Jeff Bezos. HE is the source and the cause and to him -- and this is a libertarian speaking-- everyone&#x27;s existence is the sum total of the money they make him.<p>In fact, I think Jeff Bezos is a pathological liar and a psychopath. He&#x27;s very charming, heartless and able to fake warmth. Clearly he has had PR training too. But he&#x27;s the evil at the core of Amazon.<p>I&#x27;ve had extensive dealings with Microsoft and Apple and other big companies-- none were any where close to as toxic and heartless as Amazon. Jeff really sees people as resources to be exploited and could not care less about employee development, or retention.<p>In fact, the back stabbing, competitive nature that makes it such a toxic environment is designed in some sort of &quot;survival of the fittest&quot; delusion-- the product is regularly sacrificed (and amazon.com is pretty much a joke how broken it is-- still is, in fact) as a result.<p>You win at Amazon by playing politics, not by being good at your job.<p>PS-- why was I stupid enough to go to HR? I&#x27;ve worked mostly for startups, and it was the job previous to this that was my first real experience with an HR &quot;department&quot; which was one person, who was damn good, and exceptional at mediation and conflict resolution, full of integrity and trustworthy. I didn&#x27;t have experience at large companies to know that HR was mostly filled with drama addicted flunkies.
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notNow将近 10 年前
<i>I strongly believe that anyone working in a company that really is like the one described in the NYT would be crazy to stay. I know I would leave such a company.</i><p>The cynic in me would interpret this as a tacit invitation by the Bezo-man himself to unhappy employees to beat it and don&#x27;t let the door hit them on their rears on their way out if they don&#x27;t like working here but I could be wrong but with the likes of Bezos and Ellison, you shouldn&#x27;t set the bar really high when it comes to human empathy.
satai将近 10 年前
Jeff Bezos is definitely the new Steve Jobs.
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austenallred将近 10 年前
&quot;BREAKING: Hugely successful big co has ex employees not fully satisfied, willing to criticize it. It also has current employees who appreciate it, willing to defend it. Will keep you posted.&quot;
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blindhippo将近 10 年前
First world problems like no other...<p>We&#x27;re talking about highly paid professionals working at a rather cushy job all things considered. It&#x27;s like listening to rich kids complain about having blue M&amp;M&#x27;s touching the red M&amp;M&#x27;s in their bowl of candy.<p>Nothing in this whole bit of drama is shocking other then I&#x27;m not quite sure why Amazon is being singled out. All of the complaints made are systematic problems in any large corporation. The workplace isn&#x27;t there to hold your hand and to be your own personal playground. In Tech, you have to earn your place every day and Amazon seems to make it clear that is the case (leadership principals, talk of hard challenges, etc). I would expect to be &quot;managed out&quot; if I showed up every day expecting to coast through with the bare minimum - who would want to work at a company where that is acceptable?<p>Boycotting the company as a customer is also pretty funny to me. The chief competition is Walmart - are the activists going to order from them instead? How is that any better ethically?
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