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Apprentice.at – Apprenticeships, not internships

97 点作者 kangman将近 10 年前

16 条评论

laurentoget将近 10 年前
&quot;We expect that you will have your own equipment and your own software. Up&amp;Up uses Macs and Adobe Creative Suite and will expect you will have a late model&#x2F;version of each. &quot;<p>from <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.upandup.agency&#x2F;careersjob_id=job_20140721143320_PYKUIEK4CHAK5QZM" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.upandup.agency&#x2F;careersjob_id=job_20140721143320_P...</a><p>the nerve...
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anjc将近 10 年前
Apprenticeship?<p>Any role I looked at there had significant requirements. &quot;Must have intermediate knowledge of Swift&quot; etc etc.<p>That&#x27;s not how apprenticeships work. If anything, this is a far worse version of an internship given that some of them are measuring the tenure in weeks.<p>Edit: Hah. &quot;Our apprenticeship is not a junior role. The majority of people who join thoughtbot as an apprentice leave a job working as a developer or designer to join us. Because it is such a high bar, even people who have been working in the industry for many years may not make it through the interview process.&quot;<p>Insane. You&#x27;ve somehow managed to find a way to destroy the value of employment even further.
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nthnclrk将近 10 年前
I can&#x27;t seem to find any reason to think of this as anything other than an internship rebranded.<p>An apprenticeship doesn&#x27;t have to be four years, but in 3-months I don&#x27;t see anyone gaining any real fundamental depth of learning. Surface level skills? Sure.<p>If this was a genuine &quot;Apprenticeship&quot; I&#x27;d expect anything from 18 months+
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Kalium将近 10 年前
The four-year model is based around teaching fundamentals and then adding current technologies on top. In addition to being relatively slow, it often fails to teach the most recent set of technologies.<p>However, I don&#x27;t think apprenticeships are a good fit. The apprenticeship model is great for skills that do not change rapidly or need frequent updating. Carpentry five years ago is much the same as carpentry today. This works well because in such areas, you can afford to gloss over or just skip many fundamentals because the hands-on skills are all that will be needed for a multi-decade career.<p>This model doesn&#x27;t map well to development. Current technologies move fast. Adapt rapidly. One year&#x27;s hot approach is the next&#x27;s old broken crap. Our educational systems need to be designed around enabling people to adapt rapidly. The only way I know to do this is to teach people the fundamentals they need to adapt to anything within their field.<p>I&#x27;m happy to entertain other approaches, but this seems like hammering a round peg into a square hole because using a square peg is inconvenient.
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pboos将近 10 年前
Apprenticeship is nothing of the past! It is still done in some countries. And not poor countries. Switzerland for example. Read here: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;qz.com&#x2F;122501&#x2F;apprenticeships-make-young-people-in-switzerland-employable&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;qz.com&#x2F;122501&#x2F;apprenticeships-make-young-people-in-sw...</a>
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kriro将近 10 年前
I don&#x27;t really see the difference between this and a good internship in the software development field. Usually you get a mentor and they nurture you fairly well or help you to help yourself (if it&#x27;s a good internship and not a &quot;oh free codemonkey&quot; mindset). I&#x27;d say dev internships are way ahead of the curve compared to other industries.<p>The real problem (imo) is that while there&#x27;s a huge demand for developers at the end of the day it&#x27;s still hard to program well and there&#x27;s a potentially strong penalty on being sloppy while learning and on top of that the opportunity cost of people nurturing you from zero&#x2F;a low level is pretty high. There&#x27;s a difference between being able to glue working stuff together and understanding an existing codebase. Most jobs require the latter and solid engineering principles on top. I&#x27;m afraid there is no hotfix&#x2F;silver bullet.<p>Call this apprenticeship or whatever you want, I agree that the right step is taking time to develop talent even if it costs you money now. But the downside is that the workforce is ultramobile so you may invest a lot for no return.<p>I think the management trainee programs of bigger companies could be an interesting model to investigate. They are essentially meant to groom and train future &gt;middle management through on the job training in all areas of the company.
Radle将近 10 年前
If you do apprenticeships, look at Germany how to do it correctly. Apprentice.at is not the solution to the problems you are facing.
Bouncingsoul1将近 10 年前
Well, I was confused by the domain since I acutally did my apprenticeship and study in Austria (the one with mountains, no kangooros here). Well here it looks different, apprenticeship includes working for a company and going to a public school finishing with a certified diploma. These offerings on apprentice.at doesn&#x27;t look anything like this.
analog31将近 10 年前
Something I didn&#x27;t get from the website was the actual difference between an apprenticeship, an internship, and a straightforward job. Also, there are legal distinctions surrounding what can be done with paid and unpaid interns, so it would be useful to know how an apprenticeship compares to all three of those other models.
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bphogan将近 10 年前
I expected something much different. I transitioned into teaching higher education a few years ago and I would love to partner with places to send my students after they complete their two-year associates degree. I think if I bootstrapped people with the basics of breaking down problems, building code, etc, and could then send them to a great apprentiship, that would change the way we view education.<p>But what I see here is a very different than that. Most of my students wouldn&#x27;t financially apply, let alone make it for skills.<p>Some of the ads even state that people with industry experience wouldn&#x27;t even make it through the interviews... so this looks at first glance like a way to get some cheap labor from semi-experienced developers.<p>I don&#x27;t know if that&#x27;s what I want to see from our industry, and it makes me a little sad.
thomasfoster96将近 10 年前
This is just an internship rebranded, right?<p>...because my understanding of apprenticeships is that they are very very different to this concept (maybe it&#x27;s different around the world - I&#x27;m from Australia).
klunger将近 10 年前
The appearance of these seems like a natural reaction to the rise of coding bootcamps. I can easily imagine how employers are hesitant to take on a newly minted bootcamp grad, but may consider an apprenticeship program (yeah, it&#x27;s a dressed-up internship) as a kind of stepping stone &#x2F; way to mitigate risk of taking on a jr. dev from one of the bootcamps.
orange_county将近 10 年前
Sounds great and seems to better process than bootcamps since you are actually getting paid. Albeit a little low, $500&#x2F;week in SF for 3 months is kind of low. (iOS at ThoughtBot)
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scottmcdot将近 10 年前
Why the Austrian domain?
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shire将近 10 年前
Where is the Washington Apprenticeships, Seattle preferably :)
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feedthebayer将近 10 年前
Background: I&#x27;m familiar with Sparkbox&#x27;s 6 month paid apprenticeship and know a few people who went through it. I&#x27;m also a graduate of the <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bloc.io" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bloc.io</a> full-stack apprenticeship.<p>If I&#x27;m not mistaking, the current software &quot;craftsman&quot; and &quot;apprenticeship&quot; movement has been largely influenced by Dave Hoover&#x27;s Apprenticeship Patterns (free on the web): <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;chimera.labs.oreilly.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;1234000001813&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;chimera.labs.oreilly.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;1234000001813&#x2F;index.ht...</a><p>A few quotes from that book:<p>============================================================<p>This book is written for software apprentices—for people who have had a taste of developing software and want to take it further, but need some guidance. Whether you have a college degree from a prestigious computer science program or are entirely self-taught, you recognize that there are great developers out there, and you aspire to achieve the same mastery that they possess.<p>...<p>When discussing what it means to be an apprentice, Marten Gustafson, one of our interviewees, put it best when he said, “I guess it basically means having the attitude that there’s always a better&#x2F;smarter&#x2F;faster way to do what you just did and what you’re currently doing. Apprenticeship is the state&#x2F;process of evolving and looking for better ways and finding people, companies and situations that force you to learn those better&#x2F;smarter&#x2F;faster ways.” We think there’s a lot of value in having this internal drive that is not dependent on anyone else to bestow solutions upon you, and that leads you to find constructive ways of dealing with problems.<p>...<p>Apprenticeship is the beginning of your journey as a software craftsman. During this time you will be primarily focused inward, intent on growing your craftsmanship. While you will benefit from the attention of your peers and more experienced developers, you must learn to grow yourself, to learn how you learn. This focus on yourself and your need to grow is the essence of what it means to be an apprentice.<p>============================================================<p>In my mind, the key difference between an internship and apprenticeship is the focus and purpose. Generally, a company hires an intern as a cheap way to get extra help. Sure, they will help the intern as needed, but primarily so they can accomplish something for the company.<p>Whereas, when a company takes on an apprentice, the primary focus is on providing an awesome, safe learning environment. Sure, the apprentice will likely do something of value for the company, but that&#x27;s a side benefit.<p>Also, generally people think internship == work while apprenticeship == learning.<p>So technically there may not be a lot of difference, but I argue that the difference in paradigms has a large impact.<p>---<p>I&#x27;m not familiar but any of the other apprenticeships, but Sparkbox&#x27;s is much better than what&#x27;s generally being discussed in the other comments here. You don&#x27;t need to already have significant experience to join. All you need is an interest in web development. See more here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;sparkbox&#x2F;apprenticeships" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;sparkbox&#x2F;apprenticeships</a><p>So don&#x27;t let one company&#x27;s program taint your view of the rest!
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