Is it futile to un-Google?

110 点作者 tsagi超过 9 年前

25 条评论

mulander超过 9 年前

No it's not futile. Every little bit helps.I switched from google search to duckduckgo. I still hit an occasional search on google but that's a percentile of the searches they got from me before that decision.I host my own mail server. Yes I still have that gmail account for stuff that are not important enough to migrate and look it up from time to time but the majority of my personal email traffic now goes through my own server. They still get some of my mail if the recipient is a gmail account but guess what? It's not all of my mail.I don't host files on Dropbox or the Google drive. I have my own owncloud server on the same box as the mail server.I host my own jabber server for real time chat - mostly with my wife as a lot of people no longer use anything except google/facebook chats. I talk on IRC with tech friends/work, jabber for personal stuff and once in a blue moon I open up that g+ chat to check if someone wanted something from me.I do my backups on tarsnap, feels great.I run Linux for my work machine and OpenBSD for my private machine.I do have an Android phone but I essentially stopped carrying it with me everywhere. I hate being a slave of the phone, no longer have a mobile data plan and I take the phone with me only when I really need to be reached.Does Google know a lot about me? Yes. Are they still learning more from people I communicate with? Yes. The point is, they are getting less information. I already noticed a large quality drop in the accuracy of google searches/youtube recommendations for my account.Side effect from all of this is that people in my close circle of friends tend to pick up some of the habits (duckduckgo & other small bits). You don't take down a giant with one stroke, you cut it up piece by piece.

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yuvadam超过 9 年前

Approaching the "to google or not to google" question is impossible without stating your casus belli.If you care about opsec, there are many reasons why you would want to use google services: e.g. a hostile actor will have an extremely hard time stealing your emails from Gmail while there's a might higher chance you fucked up a config on your self-hosted setup. Usually, as always, it comes down to smart compartmentalization and using the right tool for the job.Personally, the ethical perspective is a much stronger reason why to stray away from data behemoths like Google and Facebook. First of all I believe the "usefullness" of many of these services is over-exaggerated: Facebook noawadays is more of a brainwashing service to expose you to "content" that does nothing more than dull your mind and keep you mindlessly scrolling and endless stream of irrelevant advertisements. But even if this isn't the case for all online services, some come at a price I am personally not willing to pay.We are entering an era of digital slavery where our entire lives are managed by data monopolies that are bound by no rules other than those they create for themselves. I don't care how convenient these commercial services are, if the price is giving up the sovereignty of my data, and the core liberties of my human existence. I make a conscious choice to not be part of this system, and we will all have to face this choice sooner or later.For more on this topic, I highly suggest Aral Balkan's talk from re:publica this year [1].[1] - <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh8supIUj6c" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh8supIUj6c</a>

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mamon超过 9 年前

I have a dream: I would like to have all the "cloud" services: Gmail, Dropbox, Google Docs, online photo gallery, video streaming, etc. And I would like to have them as downloadable software packages, so that I could buy my own domain, set up my MacMini as a server and have all of the above services hosted on the server I own and have full controll of. Do you think that's possible to do ?

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walkingolof超过 9 年前

I switched from gmail to Fastmail (<a href="http://www.fastmail.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.fastmail.com</a>) two years ago mostly because I don't want to feed the monster. Surprisingly, in many ways, the move was a step up in usability, I was prepared to scarify some comfort, but it turned out that I didn't had to.Fastmail offers everything I need, great mail client, calander, contacts, notes, great app for both Android and iOSI also got my family accounts on Fastmail, we ended up creating a family account so we can share folders, calenders, contacts etc.yes, it costs money, but I think its worth it.*) I'm not affiliated with Fastmail in anyway, just think the service provided is great.

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r3bl超过 9 年前

I kind of found a sweet spot where I'm using a European-based email service. I created my Google account with it, but I'm not really using it constantly (just to comment on YouTube videos now and then and use Google+ like once a week). I'm also using Google's Docs occasionally, but just to share the .pdf docs with people I interviewed to show them a preview of the article that is going to be public in a couple of days anyway. I'm using Facebook like once per week (I don't have it installed on my phone), I don't own any Apple products, I'm using OpenStreetMap instead of Google's Maps, I'm using DuckDuckGo instead of Google's search (and I love it). On my laptop, I'm using a Linux-based operating system. I'm perfectly happy. It's a perfect privacy/usability combination for me.I changed a lot of my habits since Snowden came out and I am perfectly happy with it.

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runjake超过 9 年前

A lot of people are recommending ownCloud.After spending some time with ownCloud and pouring through it, I'll take the relatively superior safety, security, and privacy of Google. I encourage any doubters to examine the ownCloud source[1] and come to their own conclusions.Migrate away from Google where you can, but do it in small steps with rational, informed decisions.1. To head off the obvious response of "Then submit patches, make it better!": That's akin to walking into a home fraught by fire and mentioning the pictures could use a little dusting.

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eps超过 9 年前

> 51% of his emails passed through Google serversI was playing with an idea of an "off-Google email delivery" for Gmail recipients. Basically they would get a short note saying that a reply to your email is available, please pick it up [here], with a link leading to a TLS'd page on a non-Google server. The same page would offer them an option of replying to the conversation right there if there's a need to do that.I'm pretty sure this would piss the hell off some Gmail users, but that'd be exactly the point - to make them at least stop and consider that not everyone's a fan of passing all their communications through Google.Is there anything like this out there?

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thinkingoutloud超过 9 年前

Here is a thought...Email is supposedly a digital metaphor for snail mail. With snail mail, you receive a letter in your mailbox (which you check every other day), and you take the letter out, process it, and either store it somewhere safe or discard it (POP).That is how email used to work. At some point things changed so you no longer regularly clear your mailbox, but you just open the letter, read it, and put it back in (IMAP).Actually, you no longer get the mail in the mailbox. You call the post office and ask them to read the letter to you (webmail).

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gnuarch超过 9 年前

It's not futile to un-Google. Every little bit helps. It's not too difficult to use another search engine, to choose a smaller email provider, to set-up Thunderbird with Enigmail, to set-up Owncloud on a server and/or your own NAS.

psynapse超过 9 年前

I run my own mail server, use GPG with Enigmail and I'm logged in to Wickr all day.I also use Orbot, Text Secure and Red Phone on my Mobile.The problem that I have is that despite talking up these to my peers, no one uses the secure channels. Even friends that created Wickr accounts message me on Facebook.

hippich超过 9 年前

i am probably repeating myself (but these topics repeat themselves too :))If you are interested in switching away from Google, take a look at <a href="https://github.com/sovereign/sovereign" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/sovereign/sovereign</a>It is ansible playbook to setup most of the stuff you need daily (and extras on top) on own barebone dedicated/vp server. Super easy to get going. (not "Install" button like easy, but nowhere close to pains of setting up mail server, making sure antispam and dkim signing work, etc,etc,etc)

brudgers超过 9 年前

Serious pursuit for a technical person probably winds up looking a lit like Stallman's lifestyle...though perhaps with less fame and public purpose.

phantarch超过 9 年前

For those who don't google and use many of the 'big' services: Do you also not shop at large retail chains like Target or Walmart? Do you avoid Starbucks? They all collect the information you give them, sell it, analyze it, and figure out how to better get you to buy from them. I'm honestly curious if it's simply an issue about the collection of your data or if it's an issue of what data is collected.

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out_of_protocol超过 9 年前

Question to anyone: how hard it would be to integrate pgp (or pgp-like) thing on browser level? would immediately solve all the headache. let's say:Special UI for storing private/public pairs in a browser (private key never leaves the PC) special javascript commands (assume some standard here) to invoke native windows which can not be controlled via js. sign, type message, encrypt. confirm this specific message is actually signed by specific person (pretty trivial in terms of coding and bulletproof UI, except for "public identity storage" part which exceptionally hard).Looks like very simple htmlsomething standard could overturn all the state of modern web privacy.

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superuser2超过 9 年前

Of course it's futile. The only thing that protects confidentiality is end-to-end zero-knowledge encryption performed in open source code audited by professional cryptographers, with a trusted system for distributing public keys. Using indie or European providers is just window dressing. Your emails will be in plaintext SMTP when they reach NSA fiber taps just like everyone else's.Running your own server just shifts your trust from Google to DigitalOcean/Linode/AWS or your residential ISP (even less deserving).I wish we would stop this navel-gazing about which providers to trust and FUCKING ADOPT GPG ALREADY. It's been, what, 15 years?

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gtirloni超过 9 年前

When the wiretapping scandals started to get more attention, I got really paranoid. I decided to go full gear into privacy mode and the end result was total frustration with poor tools and way more friction than necessary. Then I realized I'd like just _some_ of my stuff to be positively private and I didn't care much about the other 95%. So that's where I focus my attention, much like the author. If I had endless time and money, sure, I would love to have everything super private and secure, but I don't so.. a more pragmatic approach is needed.

dennisgorelik超过 9 年前

This fight for privacy reminds me Don Quixote's attack on windmills.

ionised超过 9 年前

No it's not futile.I've done it (completely Google free). It's actually very easy to do and the comment about inferior UX is indicative of someone who hasn't seriously spent any time researching alternatives.This article is just the author attemtping to justify to himself his unwillingness to do without Google services.That's fine, if you want to use Google services you should be able to. Just don't pretend like everyone else is having the same difficulty moving away from them to make yourself feel better.

johnchristopher超过 9 年前

Would a well designed campaign about GPG and how to use it help ? Has anyone ever tried that ?The more the likes of lavaboom, whiteout or proton mail sprout up from the ground, the more I feel it'd be simpler to teach K9 and GPG to `people' than having them switch over a new service that might or might not survive the next 6 months. At least for E-mail.

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ck2超过 9 年前

If you are in the USA, everything you emailed six months ago is open for reading by any government agency without a warrant, without letting you know in any way.(and if you are not in the usa, just assume it is realtime)This is why everyone should probably have their own private email server locked down in their home. Postfix can be made pretty secure.

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jakeogh超过 9 年前

Eventually one can:<pre><code> echo "address=/.google.com/127.0.0.1" >> /etc/dnsmasq.conf </code></pre> (along with google's other domains)Note this cant be done with standard /etc/hosts blocking since the hosts file does not support blocking subdomains unless they are explicit.

cronjobber超过 9 年前

Don't forget the supply side---consider blocking googlebot from crawling your non-commercial content.A critical mass of google bot boycotters could help tip google search into becoming so blatantly commercial that opinion leaders might finally consider alternatives.

coldtea超过 9 年前

>On the bright side, Snowden notes that the big software companies are doing steps in the right direction.I call BS on that.What are the steps FB, Google, Apple etc have taken "in the right direction".If anything it's only gonna get worse, what with expanding to the "Internet of Things" and such (not to mention future possible Google and Apple self-driving cars).

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cbpy超过 9 年前

to fully un-Google is not easy, but sites like <a href="http://www.keyamp.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.keyamp.com/</a> can help you watch Youtube videos... these iptables rules can help you block Google (there is probably more efficient ways to write those rules too)...#!/bin/sh# /etc/init.d/firewallIPT="/sbin/iptables"IPT6="/sbin/ip6tables"# Block Google$IPT -A INPUT -s 64.18.0.0/20 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 64.233.160.0/19 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 64.102.0.0/20 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 66.249.80.0/20 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 72.14.192.0/18 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 74.125.0.0/16 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 108.177.8.0/21 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 173.194.0.0/16 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 207.126.144.0/20 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 209.85.128.0/17 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 216.58.192.0/19 -j DROP$IPT -A INPUT -s 216.239.32.0/19 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 64.18.0.0/20 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 64.233.160.0/19 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 64.102.0.0/20 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 66.249.80.0/20 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 72.14.192.0/18 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 74.125.0.0/16 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 108.177.8.0/21 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 173.194.0.0/16 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 207.126.144.0/20 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 209.85.128.0/17 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 216.58.192.0/19 -j DROP$IPT -A OUTPUT -d 216.239.32.0/19 -j DROP$IPT6 -A INPUT -s 2001:4860:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A INPUT -s 2404:6800:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A INPUT -s 2607:f8b0:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A INPUT -s 2800:3f0:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A INPUT -s 2a00:1450:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A INPUT -s 2c0f:fb50:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A OUTPUT -s 2001:4860:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A OUTPUT -s 2404:6800:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A OUTPUT -s 2607:f8b0:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A OUTPUT -s 2800:3f0:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A OUTPUT -s 2a00:1450:4000::/36 -j DROP$IPT6 -A OUTPUT -s 2c0f:fb50:4000::/36 -j DROP

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reeta超过 9 年前

good