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Volkswagen Stock Plummets as CEO Apologizes for Emissions Cheat

165 点作者 r0h1n超过 9 年前

27 条评论

yread超过 9 年前
I looked a bit into this and it seems strange that this happened only now.<p>Consider this [1] 2014 study (scroll to last page of executive summary, page 5). Basically they tested 15 vehicles from 6 manufacturers for emissions while on the road and NONE OF THEM passed the euro 6 average (!) limit. 1 was exactly on the limit, the worst one emitted on average 24 times more than the norm. They noted the vehicles emit more when driving uphill.<p>Then there is this article [2] from 2014 which says the emissions in city traffic are 3 times the norm.<p>In 2013 this study [3] was published which measured diesel NO2 emissions and found out that Euro 5 class vehicles have exactly the same emissions as Euro 2 (from 1992) cars.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theicct.org&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;publications&#x2F;ICCT_PEMS-study_diesel-cars_20141013.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theicct.org&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;publications&#x2F;ICCT...</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.telegraph.co.uk&#x2F;motoring&#x2F;news&#x2F;10862975&#x2F;Emission-tests-substantially-underestimate-pollution-pumped-out-by-diesels.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.telegraph.co.uk&#x2F;motoring&#x2F;news&#x2F;10862975&#x2F;Emission-t...</a><p>[3] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;uk-air.defra.gov.uk&#x2F;assets&#x2F;documents&#x2F;reports&#x2F;cat05&#x2F;1307161149_130715_DefraRemoteSensingReport_Final.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;uk-air.defra.gov.uk&#x2F;assets&#x2F;documents&#x2F;reports&#x2F;cat05&#x2F;13...</a>
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tiplus超过 9 年前
Test tuning seems to have a long history at VW. The VW subsidiary Porsche tuned the 918 spyder with a battery just large enough to pass fuel consumption test at ~78mpg, or 3l&#x2F;100km which is ridiculously far from reality.<p>I am very curious, as to who wrote that patch. Afaik, almost all German manufacturers buy their common rail Diesel motor control units from Bosch. Stuff like pressure adjustment, valve control, or silly &#x27;sports mode&#x27; buttons are all designed at Bosch. They ship a modular firmware which the manufacturers customize. Maybe VW were not the only customers of this special &#x27;feature&#x27;.
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arcticbull超过 9 年前
I have to hand it to them, it takes a huge pair to actually design, develop and ship something like this to customers. I&#x27;d always assumed if anything this crazy as going on at least one employee would have blown the whistle at some point.<p>I guess this answers my Bond-villain henchman recruiting problem. I&#x27;d always wondered how those super-villains recruited henchmen and grunts necessary to run their island fortresses. Turns out it may not be all that hard ^_^
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tinbad超过 9 年前
Meanwhile GM gets away with a laughable $900m settlement for knowingly using faulty parts that have caused the deaths of hundreds and many more severely injured.<p>Reason I&#x27;m saying this is I expect VW will end up paying magnitudes of this amount for their wrongdoing that did not result in anyone&#x27;s death.<p>EDIT: Toyota had to settle for $1.2b in the unintended acceleration lawsuit that may have caused the death of 3 people where, up to this day, there is still no proof that there was something wrong with the cars, let alone that any employees were knowingly approving the installation of faulty parts.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloombergview.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2015-09-18&#x2F;gm-s-cynicism-pays-off-in-ignition-settlement" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloombergview.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2015-09-18&#x2F;gm-s-cynici...</a>
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swingbridge超过 9 年前
There&#x27;s no defense for what they did. I mean it&#x27;s so silly it&#x27;s the sort of thing you expect to be part of the evil guy&#x27;s plans to destroy the world in a Bond film... not something that a stupid corporation actually does.
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QUFB超过 9 年前
Four days ago, GM was fined $900 million for a known defect that <i>killed</i> over 100 people. If the VW fine exceeds that, something is clearly out-of-line with corporate prosecutions in the US.
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abakker超过 9 年前
So, the real moral here is that Volkswagen took advantage of the fact that our emission standards basically trust the cars own on board diagnostics to determine if they pass emissions...<p>CA, at least, uses the BAR-OIS inspection for diesel cars, coupled with a &quot;visual inspection&quot; to make sure that the car does not produce visual pollutants. Effectively, this means that the software reads whether the car is passing from the OBD-II port in the car, and then, as long as the car has the necessary parts (Exhaust recirculator, catalytic convertor, etc) then it passes.<p>It would not surprise me to find out that more than just VW have these kind of issues. Effectively, we don&#x27;t actually verify with any instrumentation whether the emissions are within spec.<p>Sure, VW may have duped the system on purpose, but, the fact that this has gone on for <i>years</i> has to weigh in a bit on a critical mind. Our tests don&#x27;t work very well if this stuff can go on this long.<p>___<p>Of course, it is also trivial to find an inspection location that will pass almost any diesel vehicle, if you know where to look. For any interested parties, try googling &quot;diesel exhaust delete&quot; or some similar query for any number of Ford f-350s, Ram 2500s or any other large turbo diesels. This basically consists of taking a saw, and cutting out the EGR, and some other flow restricting parts of the exhaust to increase exhaust flow, typically done in combination with a chip&#x2F;turbo map.<p>The results can be significant. A person I know got a fairly significant bump in both power and MPG at the expense of needing to carefully plan how to pass emissions tests. The main question that weighs in is whether it is better to pass emissions and get 13-15mpg, or to fail emissions technically, but get 24-26Mpg with diesel. Those are real numbers with a 2008 Ram 2500.<p>I think this VW thing should spark a larger conversation about how we measure emissions in the first place, and what cost the emissions passing imposes.
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branchless超过 9 年前
They should try the bank line:<p>* hey we are just playing the game, it&#x27;s the regulators who set the rules<p>* it&#x27;s business, if we didn&#x27;t get innovative with the rules we&#x27;d loose customers and go out of business<p>* it was one rogue guy, the culture here is fine!<p>If all these fail then just make sure the fine is less than the profit you make from the &quot;transgression&quot;.
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w_t_payne超过 9 年前
Presumably VW had a project (either in-house, or through one of their tier-1 suppliers) to develop this technology.<p>A crime was committed, so who is criminally liable?<p>The sales-people who agreed the deal? The project manager who was given the project to manage? The release manager who signed-off the release? The systems test manager who tested the vehicle? How about all the software developers and other engineers who were assigned to work on the project?<p>I&#x27;d particularly like to know what people think the extent of criminal liability for individual software developers in the automotive industry is and should be?
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kinofcain超过 9 年前
The EU announced earlier this year that they were changing the test procedures and certification rules for diesel cars to more accurately assess and control NOx output and to prevent gaming of the tests by manufacturers. Defeat devices were explicitly called out:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;environment&#x2F;2015&#x2F;feb&#x2F;03&#x2F;car-makers-face-real-world-emissions-tests-in-eu-pollution-clampdown" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;environment&#x2F;2015&#x2F;feb&#x2F;03&#x2F;car-maker...</a>
TomGullen超过 9 年前
Even with the looming threat of billions of dollars of fines, big co&#x27;s STILL try to cheat the system.<p>In a deregulated market, how can we ever expect these co&#x27;s to act honestly? We can&#x27;t.
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robmcm超过 9 年前
Environmental impact aside, this is the same practice employed by Samsung and HTC with regards to performance benchmarks:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bgr.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;11&#x2F;27&#x2F;samsung-benchmark-cheating-banned-htc&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bgr.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;11&#x2F;27&#x2F;samsung-benchmark-cheating-banned-...</a><p>I saw a documentary about other manufactures removing seats and using different tires for tests. I expect this is rife with any industry imposed tests :(
ck2超过 9 年前
This is why I believe in corporate death sentences.<p>You ship millions of cars that don&#x27;t actually slowly poison the drivers but the people on the side of the road instead, you should have more than a little justice coming your way.
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7952超过 9 年前
It is strange that he is apoligfising for misleading people. The damage is the excessive toxic gas that was released into our communities.
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tonyjstark超过 9 年前
I worked with them and know that before they release software they do a risk calculation. They do it even for small mobile apps and if the risk is too high because they would need to regain public trust they don&#x27;t release that app &#x2F; software. So how in the world can it be that they released this? Normal employees there are not allowed to make such decisions.
digitalneal超过 9 年前
IMO, EPA should seize the cars till there is a legal solution. Let the consumers sue for being sold a vehicle on false pretenses. Being a car enthusiast, I already see posts on the forums from car guys stating they will refuse to allow VW to fix the problem on their cars, because they know the fix will sacrifice performance and economy.
morsch超过 9 年前
How likely is it that other manufacturers are doing the same thing?
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einrealist超过 9 年前
I can say so much: many VW employees in my &quot;vicinity&quot; are baffled, too.
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rrmm超过 9 年前
In my cursory search, I&#x27;ve not found any numbers for just how badly they cheated. Anyone know what the test vs defeated emission numbers were?<p>I imagine there&#x27;s gonna be a huge class action suit on top of everything.<p>Edit: 10-40x the EPA limit of NOx according to the EPA letter to VW (pdf: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www3.epa.gov&#x2F;otaq&#x2F;cert&#x2F;documents&#x2F;vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www3.epa.gov&#x2F;otaq&#x2F;cert&#x2F;documents&#x2F;vw-nov-caa-09-18-15....</a>)
ohitsdom超过 9 年前
I don&#x27;t understand this &quot;defeat device&quot;. What&#x27;s the incentive for VW to do this? If the car can emit in the target range during a test, why not do it all time?
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tantalor超过 9 年前
Previous discussion; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10240001" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10240001</a>
totalrobe超过 9 年前
Nice discount on VW stock
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crabasa超过 9 年前
Probably a great time to buy some VLKAY:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;money.cnn.com&#x2F;quote&#x2F;quote.html?symb=VLKAY" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;money.cnn.com&#x2F;quote&#x2F;quote.html?symb=VLKAY</a>
vegabook超过 9 年前
It looks like the stock is pricing in an enormous fine, because otherwise a 500k recall would not do anything like this to the price. Even adjusting for VW&#x27;s disgraceful wrongdoing, do I smell veiled protectionism? Payback for Europe&#x27;s hounding of GOOG in there somewhere?
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Simulacra超过 9 年前
Hint: Buy VW stock now.
happyscrappy超过 9 年前
Did VW have to do this in Europe as well or are their air standards more lax?
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anc84超过 9 年前
Huh, this was days in the coming. I am surprised it just happens today. I should have bet on it...
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