TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Alan Kay on re-creating Xerox PARC's design magic at CDG

163 点作者 sandij超过 9 年前

15 条评论

Animats超过 9 年前
PARC was in the glory days of corporate research labs. PARC, Bell Labs, IBM Almaden, Sarnoff Labs, HP Labs, etc. Research labs that were part of big companies. I was lucky enough to visit many of those in their prime.<p>I got to tour PARC in 1975, years before Steve Jobs did, when I took a summer course in computer architecture taught by William McKeeman. He was the architect of a generation of Burroughs CPUs, and knew everybody in CPU design. So I met Alan Kay before anybody had heard of him. He had a vision, but it wasn&#x27;t quite what most people think it was. He said the big advantage they had was that they were funded heavily enough to build the single-user computers of the future now. The Alto was over $20K (some said $50K) per unit, which was insanely expensive for a single user computer. It took another decade to get the cost down. Kay&#x27;s group saw as their job to get the software ready for when the hardware came down in price.<p>Kay was thinking that the killer app for personal computers was going to be simulations. He later had a demo graphical hospital simulation, which was a discrite-event simulator where patients came in with a complaint (&quot;I am a victim of Bowlerthumb&quot;), and went through Admitting, Examination, Surgery, etc. out to Discharge. Smalltalk is based on Simula, an Algol-derived simulation language, and was originally intended for discrite-event simulation. Document preparation and mail were a sideline.[1]<p>Kay was operating in an empty world. Almost nobody else was throwing money at what software should look like a decade or two hence, for a class of machines that didn&#x27;t exist yet. That was a huge advantage. Anything good that was done there advanced the state of the art.<p>Kay&#x27;s group was only a small part of PARC. There were other people in the large building working on copier technology and the physics behind xerography. (Unfortunately for Xerox, they didn&#x27;t invent organic photoconductors, which made xerography machines much smaller and cheaper. IBM did.) Kay&#x27;s group had considerable engineering resources to draw upon, machine shops and electronics shops and chemistry labs that could make things. They were able to have their own CRT tubes made for the Alto. It&#x27;s a lot easier to invent when you have that kind of substantial engineering backup. That&#x27;s why they were able to build a laser printer - they were in an engineering facility that could build both a CRT and a copier. Kay&#x27;s group just did the software and some of the electronics.<p>That&#x27;s hard to reproduce - all that engineering backup. It&#x27;s only available within a big business that makes real stuff. Today, Samsung and Fujitsu have labs like that, but few US companies, at least in the electronics&#x2F;computer sector, do. There are a few military operations with such capabilities - China Lake Naval Weapons Center is one; they can design, build, and flight-test something in-house.<p>So that&#x27;s why it&#x27;s hard to reproduce PARC - you need an empty field of research, and heavy engineering backup.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.computer.org&#x2F;csdl&#x2F;mags&#x2F;co&#x2F;1977&#x2F;03&#x2F;01646405.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.computer.org&#x2F;csdl&#x2F;mags&#x2F;co&#x2F;1977&#x2F;03&#x2F;01646405.pdf</a>
评论 #10325323 未加载
评论 #10323211 未加载
评论 #10325075 未加载
jacobolus超过 9 年前
The linked Bloomberg article has a hilarious quotation at the bottom:<p>&gt; <i>Exploring odd things isn’t likely to help SAP attract more cloud customers in the short term, says Bill Hostmann, an analyst at researcher Gartner. “What SAP really needs is more execution,” he says. “A lot of people took inspiration from PARC. Did Xerox directly benefit from that? Not really.”</i><p>Bill Hostmann has no clue. Xerox got the laser printer out of PARC, which ended up as a multibillion dollar business for them.
评论 #10323809 未加载
评论 #10323613 未加载
mathgenius超过 9 年前
&quot;Kay has also tried to help companies re-bottle the lightning that crackled within Xerox PARC during his tenure there.&quot;<p>I worked for a while in one of these companies. It was really nice having Alan Kay around, and some of the other geniuses he was working with at the time.<p>But, there was also massive amounts of money at stake, and far too much heavy shit going down on a daily basis for any of the more weird guys (like me) to get very far. Although, i did make a ton of money for that company (me and one of the other weirdos), when it came time for the rest of the developers to join in it was like &quot;what the fk is this ?&quot; haha. good times.
评论 #10323084 未加载
DonHopkins超过 9 年前
&gt; My attempts to do Xerox PARC-like things over the years, like Interval [Research Corporation] with [Microsoft co-founder] Paul Allen, most of them have failed for one of two reasons. it’s either so antithetical to the corporate culture that nobody really wants it. Or in Paul Allen’s case, he wanted to monetize everything. He treated [Interval] as an innovation center or product engineering division. He never understood the process of doing invention research. A company should have an invention center because it’s a wild card.<p>I went out to dinner at SIGGRAPH in the early 90&#x27;s with some people from Xerox PARC and some people from Interval Research. When one of the Interval people quipped &quot;We&#x27;re the Xerox PARC of the 90&#x27;s&quot;, one of the Xerox PARC people took issue with that and corrected them: &quot;Actually, we consider ourselves to be the Xerox PARC of the 90&#x27;s.&quot;
tluyben2超过 9 年前
I had this experience in my own company for a very very brief time when we had enough money for it. We were (trying) doing innovation in the our R&amp;D dep first but after that I tried to make that into something more. Unfortunately in a commercial entity (as is indicated in the article) this is extremely hard to do as when the time for new budgets arrives my co-founders would ask where the tangible (as in money) results were. Results did come and in the end it did actually break even but the freedom was stripped too soon to really make something happen. Sounds like the ultimate job to be honest.<p>And that at SAP of all places. I worked with SAP software and consultants and probably as many here who worked with SAP as well will probably agree; that is a far shout from this invent lab...
评论 #10323180 未加载
pjmlp超过 9 年前
Xerox PARC systems were great and it is a pity that the mainstream didn&#x27;t adopt them as such, only a few pieces.<p>Every time I dig into their archives I come out marvelled with how programming might have felt in those Workstations. Memory safe programming languages for the whole stack (+ Assembly of course), automatic memory management, OS wide REPL, visual debuggers, code correction, modular systems...<p>Specially since Smalltalk and Oberon (Native and BlueBottle) allowed me to have a glimpse of it.
评论 #10325961 未加载
rumcajz超过 9 年前
Question: Why don&#x27;t we see this rate of invention in open source community? It is already (apart of it corporation-sponsored part) an artistic community, people work on stuff they like, there&#x27;s no business pressure and so on.
评论 #10323219 未加载
评论 #10323151 未加载
评论 #10323441 未加载
评论 #10323172 未加载
评论 #10323688 未加载
评论 #10325249 未加载
评论 #10323293 未加载
评论 #10324738 未加载
评论 #10323616 未加载
teddyh超过 9 年前
The thing to recreate would, in my opinion, not be Xerox PARC, but the SRI bootstrapping idea.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=agdPQuFr0yg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=agdPQuFr0yg</a>
hyperion2010超过 9 年前
Point 2 uses the exact phrase I have use to describe my experience of visiting Valve : &quot;Artist colony.&quot; Take smart creative people who often don&#x27;t fit well elsewhere and let them go.
DonHopkins超过 9 年前
There&#x27;s a difference between:<p>Department of Simulation Research<p>and:<p>Department of Research Simulation
dang超过 9 年前
One of their projects was on the HN front page a few days ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10293368" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10293368</a>.
praptak超过 9 年前
This is a thing that happened once. What if it just cannot be recreated?
评论 #10323193 未加载
评论 #10323149 未加载
david927超过 9 年前
This is like hearing that a major record label gave The Beatles (all four living) a recording contract. You would scratch your head and ask why it didn&#x27;t happen earlier.
manibatra超过 9 年前
I really agree how universities are stressing on a particular programming language rather than taking a more generalist approach. One of my friends transferred from a university in Queensland, Australia to Sydney. She could not transfer the credits of one of her courses (Intro to Comp Sc) as she had taken the course in Java and not in python even though if you look at the concepts , there was a significant overlap.
linkydinkandyou超过 9 年前
Here&#x27;s a fair question to ask Alan Kay: He had roles as a &quot;fellow&quot; at Apple and Disney and HP.<p>What did he do to recreate Xerox PARC&#x27;s &quot;magic&quot; while at these places?
评论 #10326017 未加载