What ISIS Really Wants

111 点作者 vilda超过 9 年前

11 条评论

dang超过 9 年前

This article has been posted enough now:<a href="https://hn.algolia.com/?query=What%20ISIS%20Really%20Wants&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix&page=0" rel="nofollow">https://hn.algolia.com/?query=What%20ISIS%20Really%20Wants&s...</a>Indeed, by HN's criteria the current thread is a dupe. But we won't kill it, since discussion is ongoing.

rm_-rf_slash超过 9 年前

Everyone is so caught up in the theological discussion I'm almost wondering if most posters read only half the article before commenting.In the end I think IS will fail, it's just a question of how and when. There was an article in the New York Times the other day that detailed how little room IS has left to expand without digging into Syria (and facing the Russians), or Turkey (which feels more threatened by the Kurds and uses the instability as a political smokescreen but has more than enough capacity to fight back), or pretty much anywhere else but pockets of Libya. Basically, they only formed and grew so prolifically because their enemies were exceptionally weak and unwilling to fight for sand dunes, let alone the ones that contain oil.I think the best way to deal with IS is to understand the historical and religious underpinnings to get a sense of why people flock to it, then divorce the religious aspect from the dangerous entity that follows the same rules of economics that everyone is a part of. Starve the state of revenue, undermine its ability to provide for its citizens, and make it clear to supporters of the Islamic State in the Middle East and elsewhere that IS cannot effectively function any better than a Tunisian democracy or an Egyptian dictatorship.Instead of baiting their desire for an apocalyptic conflagration, slowly drain their strength and appeal. Let supporters across the planet see a strict caliphate in action and how little it accomplishes adter the easy deserts have been claimed. A weak loser that doesn't go anywhere doesn't sound exactly like the fate chosen by God.

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vowelless超过 9 年前

It is important to get a diverse set of opinions about this situation. Here is a response to the article: <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/what-muslims-really-want-isis-atlantic/386156/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/wha...</a>

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fivedogit超过 9 年前

Read this a few days ago. So good. Everything I've heard otherwise in the media has been superficial by comparison.TL;DR ISIS is a doomsday cult analogous to David Koresh's. They interpret the Koran exactly literally and any deviation from it is punishable by death (this includes AQ and all shia for modernization offenses). They believe they are a primary actor in the prophecy that'll bring about the ultimate battle with "Rome" at Dabiq, Syria and the judgement day.My take is that while modern mainstream Christianity laughed off the Branch Davidians as crazy people who offered nothing, mainstream Sunnis see IS as similarly crazy with the important exception of "well at least they're fighting the Shia". In other words, there is some tacit support for IS based on millennia-old factionalism, (edit: which is how they've grown from a small cult into a significant movement).An interesting point in the article is that while AQ can hide underground and never be fully eradicated, IS has to maintain land and provide government services under the caliphate to remain legitimate (according to the Koran, of course). This makes it an entirely different enemy that can, in theory, be destroyed.Further, no peace can ever be negotiated because the borders of IS have to keep expanding or the caliphate is no longer valid. That is, Muhammad says all non-believers have to be converted, full stop.Anyway, the article is outstanding. Take an hour to read the whole thing.

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japhyr超过 9 年前

This article was really helpful for me in developing a better understanding of ISIS. I found the dependence on possession of land particularly interesting. That fact seems particularly important in any global strategy for taking power away from ISIS.

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ssjava超过 9 年前

This article misses a major point, which is that there are many sects within Islam, the author (and non-Muslims in general) only know of or acknowledg Sunni vs Shiite, when in fact there more sects that claim to be Muslim than are in Christianity and Judaism combined. The one that ISIL, Al Qaeda, and almost all terrorist groups follow is called Wahhabism <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism" rel="nofollow">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism</a>. To understand what this group preaches you need to know the history of the region. I'll spare the details and just mention that this group was supported by Muhamed bin Saud (the ruling family in Saudi Arsbia which the country is named after). Wahhabism preaches much of what this article describes in the senseless killing of hummens, which what bin Saud needed the justification for when killing the Muslims of the region while rising to power. They have many devious teachings with deeply rooted evil that true Islam rejects.

vixen99超过 9 年前

Attack the head and albeit slowly the body will wither. Starting point: is there a single person anywhere, with a shred of intellectual credibility, who supports ISIS? The negative answer should be used to publicly paint its followers as the intellectually barren though extremely dangerous barbarians that they are. No need to spell out why this does not happen though properly handled, I think it could.

jospoortvliet超过 9 年前

aaand another article about what isis wants. How can they all be so conflicting?he Atlantic concludes that ISIS = Islam, while The Nation concludes that it's just another group of poor, abused people. <a href="http://www.thenation.com/article/what-i-discovered-from-interviewing-isis-prisoners/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thenation.com/article/what-i-discovered-from-inte...</a>

_nedR超过 9 年前

Such a loaded article (Quote from article "The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. ") making its way to the top of Hacker news (which shuns political articles like the plague) is very troubling to me as a Muslim.Seems like the Muslims of 2015 are basically moving to the position of the Jews of 1915.

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sparkzilla超过 9 年前

This response article misses a major point, most likely deliberately, that ISIS are following the actions of Mohammed himself, who they see as the perfect man. In the same way that Christians (in theory) would like to emulate the life of Christ, fundamentalist Muslims want to emulate the life of Mohammed. But Mohammed was not a man of peace. He was a warrior, who killed his enemies, targeted the Jews, kept slaves, encouraged rape of female captives, beheaded prisoners, took territory by force, treated non-Muslims as second-class citizens, and had a child bride. Therefore many of the verses in the Koran and Hadith are about these topics, and as they are a core part of the founder's life, they cannot be removed or reformed.[1]<a href="http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm</a>