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Telegram gains 1M users after Whatsapp ban

272 点作者 sultansaladin超过 9 年前

19 条评论

pqdbr超过 9 年前
I&#x27;m a judge in Brazil. Even tough I&#x27;d pray to not be the one that had to give such an impopular order (affecting more then 100 million Brazilians - WhatsApp is really a hit here), we have laws in this country and we must prosecute criminals.<p>Mark&#x27;s talk about privacy is, in my opinion, totally misplaced. No right is absolute, and that includes the right to privacy. Criminals, for example, simply don&#x27;t have it. This is not me saying; this is our Constitution saying it (and the Constitution of every Western country that I know).<p>We are biased to see all measures against privacy with bad eyes, specially after Snowden. But that&#x27;s because you are good people and see the matter with those eyes, not with the eyes of a criminal. Do you guys think that pedophiles, terrorists and drug dealers have the right to privacy ? I don&#x27;t.<p>Also, what the NSA was (is?) doing is a complete absurd, with no judicial oversight, mass collecting everything they can get in secrecy. This has nothing to do with what we have here. In Brazil, only a judge can authorize someone to be wiretapped, it can only be done in criminal cases with jail time (no civil cases). Also, the judge must specify a single phone number or single e-mail account and the decision must be reviewed every 15 days, otherwise it expires. Also, there&#x27;s a national database of wiretaps that every judge must feed by the end of the month, specifying how many wiretaps there are currently running.<p>WhatsApp and Facebook are not, by any means, above the law. If they want to provide a communication service here, the law is clear that they must abide by judicial orders that allow wiretapping in very specific cases.
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caio1982超过 9 年前
What really happened: a drug smuggler with ties to a major criminal organization had been investigated and sentenced several months ago and since July Facebook and WhatsApp folks had not complied (actually they simply ignored all requests) with some users data the justice demanded to keep prosecuting the guy and his associates. Allegedly, according to the new <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Brazilian_Civil_Rights_Framework_for_the_Internet" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Brazilian_Civil_Rights_Framewo...</a> if a company does exactly what they did, they can be temporarily blocked by a court decision as some sort of punishment for obstruction. Mark Zuckerberg complained saying it was just one judge who ordered this but AFAIK the block was requested by PA&#x27;s office.<p>To be fair, some Brazilian judges are pretty stupid and have no idea how the internet works so it&#x27;s quite possible the original users data request was super broad and that&#x27;s why Facebook and WhatsApp just ignored it. On the other hand, it&#x27;s only through very effective wires and digital data examination in recent years that the Brazilian justice is finally putting some big sharks into jail. That&#x27;s why I have mixed feelings about all this (and I&#x27;m a Telegram user myself).<p>Source, in Portuguese: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;gizmodo.com.br&#x2F;investigacao-trafico-droga-bloqueio-whatsapp&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;gizmodo.com.br&#x2F;investigacao-trafico-droga-bloqueio-wh...</a>
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etiam超过 9 年前
Shame they went there instead of to Signal, but I guess it may still be a marginal improvement.
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soneca超过 9 年前
A superior ranked judge (&#x27;desembargador&#x27;) just revoked the ban. And said (my translation):<p><i>&quot;In face of the constitutional principles, it does not seem reasonable that millions of users are affected in result of the company (whatsapp) inertia&quot;</i><p>In portuguese:<p><i>&quot;&quot;&quot;em face dos princípios constitucionais, não se mostra razoável que milhões de usuários sejam afetados em decorrência da inércia da empresa&quot;</i><p>The judge also said that a fine would be more appropriate.<p>source (in portuguese): <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;g1.globo.com&#x2F;tecnologia&#x2F;noticia&#x2F;2015&#x2F;12&#x2F;whatsapp-justica-concede-liminar-para-restabelecer-aplicativo-no-brasil.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;g1.globo.com&#x2F;tecnologia&#x2F;noticia&#x2F;2015&#x2F;12&#x2F;whatsapp-just...</a>
dheera超过 9 年前
I miss the days of ICQ, MSN, AIM, Yahoo, Zephyr, Gtalk, Facebook&#x27;s XMPP, and all those other messengers. They had relatively open or decipherable protocols, and on almost all OSes there were at least a couple decent applications that allowed you to login to all messaging services using a single piece of software. I could even write gateways and plugins to use NLP and autoreply, encrypt messages, and all kinds of other awesome things which I can&#x27;t do anymore.<p>It seems like we&#x27;ve taken a step back in technology.
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hamhamed超过 9 年前
When startups say being lucky was a big part of their success..I guess this is what they meant
lenlorijn超过 9 年前
Facebook&#x2F;Messenger is sending a message to Brazilians stating they&#x27;re working to get WhatsApp back up and suggest to use Messenger while WhatsApp is blocked. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;kx4B3na" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;kx4B3na</a>
pedrodelfino超过 9 年前
I am from Brazil and I can say: we are almost becoming the new Argentina.<p>And this is quite interesting because Argentina is becoming the new Venezuela (at least they were, but few weeks ago they had elections and the left wing lost). And Venezuela clearly is becoming the new Cuba.
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rplnt超过 9 年前
These messaging apps are worse than... well, I don&#x27;t know. This is as bad as it gets. Bicycles maybe? Incompatibility, fragmentation.. the worst thing you can have for application that is supposed to be used for communication.
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jdahlin超过 9 年前
I&#x27;m sure that the phone operators were very happy to comply to ban, they hate WhatsApp. When WhatsApp first got popular here it ended their very lucrative business of SMS and more recently they introduced VOIP calls which considerably cheaper than normal phone calls, especially long distance.<p>Three of the major phone operators (Vivo, Claro, TIM) implemented the ban, while the fourth (Oi), did not. The CEO of Vivo, one of the major phone operators, came out a couple of months ago saying that WhatsApp is &quot;piracy&quot;, since they are not affected by the same regulations as the normal phone operator.[1]<p>[1]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www1.folha.uol.com.br&#x2F;mercado&#x2F;2015&#x2F;08&#x2F;1666187-whatsapp-e-pirataria-pura-afirma-presidente-da-vivo.shtml" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www1.folha.uol.com.br&#x2F;mercado&#x2F;2015&#x2F;08&#x2F;1666187-whatsap...</a> (portuguese)
junto超过 9 年前
All of this is good. The more competition the better. Pity they aren&#x27;t all compatible. Then we might actually have an real email killer on our hands.
nasir超过 9 年前
This is how regulations can influence you&#x27;re business. Unrelated to this, but in corrupted countries a relative of the guy in the government can easily kill your business by asking him to ban yours or promote his!
Grazester超过 9 年前
So what does this tell us about Telegram? Are they willing and able to provide the authorities with the relevant info should a request such as the one made to whatsapp be made to them?
lordnacho超过 9 年前
Would it be possible to get the messages if FB&#x2F;WhatsApp decided to do so? I heard they started doing end-to-end encryption, with the keys only on the user&#x27;s phone.<p>Also, if you&#x27;ve designed a system like this, could you also design one where you&#x27;d be unable to comply with the shutdown order? I suppose one of the Bitcoin related message services would be like that.
hidingfromherd超过 9 年前
Perhaps I&#x27;m being hard-headed here, but I don&#x27;t understand the need to debate secure communications here, beyond the benefit of opening doubt in the minds of those ignorant of the underlying physical process.<p>This boils down to the fact (for me, and by proxy, my community) that I (and by proxy, my community) will not use insecure communication because someone or someones wants me to do so.<p>Shake your fist, rattle your sabres, put me in your sights, it will not change my (and by proxy, my community&#x27;s) resolve.<p>And if I (and by proxy, my community) is to be prosecuted for using secure channels, then I (and by proxy, my community) will resort to steganography. Exact circumstances aside, there&#x27;s no getting around the effects of a dedicated mind and an overwhelming power (of math) on my communications&#x27; transit.<p>The only means by which a paternal element can mediate the policies of my interactions would be to mediate the interface by which I (and by proxy, my community) communicate (in this case -- electronic&#x2F;digital computer&lt;-&gt;human), and enforce this with vigilant, and economically costly violence.<p>This matter-of-factness is similar to that in traffic stop interactions. I&#x27;m not happy that men with guns can systematically stop my transit, search my belongings, and steal my assets (at least in Texas), with ex post facto logic applied to the inherent justice, and I have no way of stopping this. The exact circumstances aside, there&#x27;s no getting around the effects of a dedicated mind and an overwhelming power on my transit.<p>So I work around it, I try not to get stopped, and I deal with it when I do get stopped. I don&#x27;t shake my fist or pout, beyond for the benefit of opening doubt in the minds of those ignorant of the underlying physical process.
Dolores12超过 9 年前
So facebook\whatsapp is criminal in Brasil because they broke the law.
kamilszybalski超过 9 年前
Wow. Merry Christmas indeed.
AndrewKemendo超过 9 年前
<i>I&#x27;m a judge in Brazil.</i><p>Your comment history says otherwise: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4167143" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4167143</a><p>Seem to be a run of the mill dev to me. I&#x27;m surprised you got as many credulous responses as you did.
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dataker超过 9 年前
Interestingly, Fitch downgraded Brazil&#x27;s Debt to junk yesterday.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;intl&#x2F;cms&#x2F;s&#x2F;0&#x2F;057c1240-a40f-11e5-b73f-9545472cb784.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;intl&#x2F;cms&#x2F;s&#x2F;0&#x2F;057c1240-a40f-11e5-b73f-95454...</a><p>Anti-technology culture tells a lot about an economy, group or nation.
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