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Better Off Deadbeat: Getting Bill Collectors Off His Back. He Sues Them.

75 点作者 shrike超过 15 年前

12 条评论

grellas超过 15 年前
This fellow's quest for "justice" against debt collection agencies has brought him to a point where he is suing the latest agency "and twenty-seven (27) of its employees in their individual capacities" for $200K.<p>I have dealt professionally in one way or another (mostly incidentally) with debt collection agencies, and they truly are revolting in the tactics they routinely use to pressure debtors for collection. Indeed, the <i>whole industry</i> is set up to win through psychological intimidation and to avoid the court process. That is the only way this industry makes economic sense. Need to collect an $80 bill? It is impossible to do this realistically through a convoluted court system with its costs and delays. If you have thousands of such bills, however, and hire extremely cheap labor to harass the debtors to the point where such debtors see it as easier to pay than to put up with the continual harassment, and, viola, an industry is born that lets vendors sell their otherwise uncollectable receivables wholesale for a fraction on the dollar rather than simply writing them off while giving the participants in that industry a (sordid) method of realizing value from the receivables so purchased. It was always something of a devil's bargain but it worked in practice so long as the harassment techniques could be used without penalty.<p>For a couple of decades, at least, various laws have existed to enable consumers to defend themselves against sleazy collection techniques. As long as the mass of consumers were ignorant of such laws, however, and had to hire attorneys to pursue claims based on violations of such laws, there was still no effective recourse for consumers - it simply was too expensive and complicated to try to fight back with lawyers for any given violation.<p>It now seems that the web has supplied the final piece to enable those who are sufficiently motivated, such as Mr. Cunnigham, to both educate themselves and to have the wherewithal to file <i>pro se</i> lawsuits seeking recourse. Ironically, this has exposed the soft underbelly of this particular industry, to wit, if you hire exceedingly cheap workers and pay them to harass debtors into paying, you are dealing with a class of employees who are perhaps the least trainable you could imagine for avoiding the traps that the law now imposes upon those who overstep its highly technical bounds. Thus, for debtors who are sufficiently motivated, it is a bit like shooting ducks in a gallery: little downside, and little upside for that matter (at least for anyone who wants to have a life), but a fairly high percentage of hits.<p>That said, Mr. Cunningham seems to be about as unscrupulous as the industry he is challenging. At best, he seems to be a vexatious litigant (what else does it mean to sue 27 undoubtedly minimum-wage employees of the agencies in their individual capacities for technical violations of laws just because he has a gripe with their employer and, not only sue, but also bombard them with endless oppressive discovery requests?); at worst, he appears to be someone who has no scruples whatever about stiffing anyone and everyone who has had the misfortune ever to deal with him. It reminds me of a matter years ago where a franchisor had cheated so many innocent franchisees through fraud and misrepresentation that the franchisor bolted up its headquarters and armed it with second-floor security cameras trained at the front entrance as a full-time means of dodging process servers. That particular scammer had it all rationalized and in the end got slammed - a fate which may ultimately await Mr. Cunningham as well as he becomes increasingly reckless and sordid in his conduct.
Seiwynn超过 15 年前
I have really mixed feelings about this article.<p>I really feel like this guy, Craig, who is suing the debt collectors is a hacker for finding the information about possible violations and pursing it legally.<p>I am also all for punishing debt collectors for actions that abuse debtors.<p>However, there are several things that rub me the wrong way.<p>1) The fact that it is easier (less expensive) for a company to settle a case for $1K, rather than fight and win a case while costing themselves $10k gives the companies no incentive to fight back. Also, The plaintiff is already in debt and is having trouble paying, so what would a company get out of counter suing?<p>2) Statements like - "Katz doesn't believe that people are morally obligated to pay back their debts." and "People are brainwashed to think that paying a credit card is more important than paying for the necessities of life." - Maybe if people spent more time worrying about the necessities of life and less about luxury they wouldn't be in debt in the first place.
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DanielStraight超过 15 年前
Given that collectors have called me repeatedly looking for someone else and refused to listen when I told them it was a wrong number, I have no trouble believing they are violating laws in dealing with people that actually have debts. If suing them will get them to change, I'm all for it.
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briancooley超过 15 年前
As someone who is financially conservative, I frown upon people intent to avoid debt they willingly incurred.<p>On the other hand: "Usually it's settled because the agency says, Uh, we didn't intend to do that. Our collector said the wrong thing and we fess up and say, 'I didn't mean to do it but I did it..."<p>Really? That's the collection agency's defense? I didn't mean to do it?<p>If it's your business to get debtors to pay their debts, you deserve to get busted when the debtor knows the law better than you. It's your <i>business</i> for Pete's sake.<p>Add to that the complaints about all the technicalities and about individuals filing lawsuits without the need for a lawyer, and it's pretty clear that collections agencies thrive on and exploit the ignorance of debtors, which is ashame.
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michaelcampbell超过 15 年前
I can see both sides of this story, and I'm quite sure collection agencies break the rules, and they deserve to get called on it.<p>But... "I don't have to do anything but stay black and die." That sort of behavior is where I draw the line. You made the bad calls, you got into debt, pay your damn debts. And sue the collectors too if you like, but that they are doing wrong things doesn't obviate your responsibilities.
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davidblair超过 15 年前
This article is about a FatWallet member named codename47. If you want to read a more complete discussion about the article you can at <a href="http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/984518/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/984518/</a>
samd超过 15 年前
What a great hack. Nobody should feel any unease at using perfectly legal methods to fight back against a system that is designed to screw people over. Who exactly deserves our sympathy in this article? Verizon? Time Warner? Bank of America? They would steal candy from a baby and charge the parents a service fee.
blahedo超过 15 年前
I have mixed feelings about this guy, but it's telling that a lot of the objections are to this guy <i>acting</i> like a lawyer. I mean, how dare he! What does it mean when they object more, as if morally, to the people who are filing pro se---and winning anyway? Hmm.
synarch超过 15 年前
The fact is, credit needs to be tightened up. People like Cunningham get in over their heads. That's on them. The onus of extending risk to such borrowers is on the lenders. These lawsuits are just going to be another factor in calculating risk, which will ultimately, one would hope, tighten up credit.<p>Rampant, aggressive debt collection is just the flipside of loose credit and lending.
leelin超过 15 年前
I'm fine with legit collections calls as long as a human collector has to waste equal or more time trying to reach me.<p>This recent invention of automated collections calls seems to shift an enormous amount of abusive power to the collector. Now I can receive random calls at almost any hour of the day, nearly every two or three days, only to have a recording spew a number I need to call back to talk to a collector.<p>The worst part is, I'm not the one they are looking for, it's whoever (had my phone number previously | gave my phone number as a fake).<p>I wonder if Craig from this article will take my case for a referral fee :P
Sukotto超过 15 年前
Wow, this guy epitomizes the concept of defeating your enemy by becoming them. He's just as nasty as the collection agencies. The fact that he's attacking them, instead of a defaulter is a mere technicality.
wendroid超过 15 年前
&#62; Investors like Cunningham fell the fastest.<p>One man's investor is another man's parasite.