TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

The Ivy League, Mental Illness, and the Meaning of Life (2014)

91 点作者 randomname2超过 9 年前

10 条评论

rl3超过 9 年前
&gt;<i>These are kids who have no ability to measure their own worth in any realistic way—either you are on top of the world, or you are worthless. And that kind of all-or-nothing mentality really pervades the whole system.</i><p>Replace <i>kids</i> with <i>founders</i> and it&#x27;s still just as true. Coincidentally, many Ivy League grads end up starting startups.
评论 #10796970 未加载
评论 #10797713 未加载
littletimmy超过 9 年前
The problem is that in the United States, a college is not a place to learn but rather a finishing school to define to what social class you belong. If you go to the Ivy League, you&#x27;re a member of the elite. What to do to get there? Curate your entire life to be appealing to a bunch of humanities majors who couldn&#x27;t get a job other than reading admissions apps. I completely agree with Mr Deresiewicz&#x27;s characterization of that as &quot;excellent sheep&quot;.<p>As a person from the third-world who went to the Ivy League, I am also scornful of America&#x27;s culture of self-congratulation. When I went to Dartmouth, I remember one of the first things during our orientation was a senior faculty member giving a speech to us telling us all great we all were to be here, how selectively we&#x27;ve been chosen, and all that. I went there to learn, not to learn how cool I am. What rubbish.
评论 #10797174 未加载
评论 #10797332 未加载
评论 #10800175 未加载
japhyceo超过 9 年前
I was hoping to goto MIT before I entered my freshman year. But none of my friends were in honors and this created one of the worst times of my life. The previous year had been one of the best.<p>In that dark year, at 14, I became focused on hacking and social engineering. I had lost my best friend and girlfriend, and the dynamics of it all isolated me from my other friends. Being 13 and somehow in love with the prettiest girl and then losing it all was devastating.<p>I barely graduated but had a fun and worked on cool side projects.<p>At 18, I met a hardware engineer and went on to work on various projects.<p>I have had a lot of interesting job offers or deals just by meeting people.<p>I had a major investment bank recruit me but I never even had a real job and probably couldn&#x27;t get hired at Burger King. The deal I was offered was absurd. In the end, I declined it and somewhat regret it.<p>But my point is, had I dated that girl throughout high school, I probably would had went to a great University. And today would be some strange diminished version of myself.
JFlash超过 9 年前
Yeah, I don&#x27;t really know what I&#x27;m going to do if&#x2F;when I&#x27;m a parent. Academia is calibrated around kids doing this &quot;hoop-jumping&quot; as early as possible, so do I push my theoretical children into this race or do I let them eat into precious time to figure things out?
评论 #10797519 未加载
评论 #10797230 未加载
评论 #10797151 未加载
评论 #10797736 未加载
评论 #10798754 未加载
评论 #10797839 未加载
JDiculous超过 9 年前
I witnessed this firsthand getting a B.S. at a state school and a Masters at an Ivy. The Ivy kids were differentiated more by their sheep&#x2F;robot like work ethic and dedication. Naturally the far majority of them pursued careers in investment banking and management consulting, careers that are essentially an extension of this hoop jumping.<p>I&#x27;ve decided that I&#x27;m not going to raise my kids in the U.S. This absurd hoop jumping isn&#x27;t the optimum way to raise a successful kid, and it sure as hell doesn&#x27;t create happy childhoods.
irremediable超过 9 年前
Am I right in thinking the most sensible option (for most college-going people) in the US is to go to a state college for the first year or so, then transfer to somewhere more prestigious?<p>(I&#x27;m British, and I don&#x27;t have any firsthand experience of the American higher education system.)
评论 #10797228 未加载
评论 #10797469 未加载
评论 #10797131 未加载
评论 #10797441 未加载
评论 #10797132 未加载
mwhuang2超过 9 年前
I&#x27;m from a Chinese family. Many of my friends and I were raised with this mindset. They went off to attend elite colleges, but I couldn&#x27;t stomach the endless hoop jumping and toxic achievement culture, so I just did my own thing and went off to my local state school. While I&#x27;ve had some ups and downs, my life experiences were unique and I prefer not to form regrets about the past.
rodionos超过 9 年前
&gt; Don&#x27;t Send Your Kid to the Ivy League<p>I will consider this option in earnest once our own kids get acceptance letters.
paulsutter超过 9 年前
Reminds me of this Louis CK video on the meaning of being white:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;GPdqlROzgvg" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;GPdqlROzgvg</a>
aaronem超过 9 年前
&gt; And I think we see that in the last 50 years, the meritocracy has created a world that’s getting better and better for the meritocracy and worse and worse for everyone else.<p>But weren&#x27;t you saying just the opposite? That being part of the elite, which here you call &quot;meritocracy&quot; because you&#x27;re playing a card trick, drives people crazy?<p>Here&#x27;s what I think: You&#x27;re talking to the elite (if you weren&#x27;t, you wouldn&#x27;t be in the Atlantic), and you know said elite are more comfortable thinking of themselves in terms of &quot;meritocracy&quot; (even though one of your theses is that there&#x27;s no meaningful merit involved), and you also know that pretending to care about unequal distribution of social benefits is currently in fashion among your audience (hence the preference for &quot;meritocracy&quot;, because it implies that your audience&#x27;s unequal share is earned). Keeping all three of these plates spinning at once is difficult; the sentence I quoted is them all hitting the ground at once.<p>&gt;Davis: Some criticize this kind of self-reflection as narcissistic[...]<p>&gt;Deresiewicz: [...]the main point is to know yourself so you know what you want in the world. You can decide, what is the best work for me, what is the best career for me, what are the rewards that I really want. And maybe you’ll end up saying that I do need a certain level of wealth, but you will know it because you will have come to know yourself.<p>Nope. Nothing narcissistic here. You know, in ages past when countries had explicit aristocracies rather than the implicit ones which deposed and replaced them, &quot;the main point&quot; as you put it was to serve others, rather than oneself. Can&#x27;t imagine what brought that to mind just now, though. Totally unrelated to anything, no doubt.<p>&gt;Gaining self-knowledge isn’t a simple or predictable process. Are there certain things that can only be learned outside the classroom?<p>Could there possibly be any <i>wronger</i> question to ask?<p>&gt;Aside from the classes themselves, the fact that we’ve created a system where kids are constantly busy, and have no time for solitude or reflection, is going to take its toll. We need to create a situation where kids feel like they don’t have to be “on” all the time.<p>Are you sure? What it sounds like you&#x27;re saying is that &quot;we&quot; have been doing the best &quot;we&quot; can for decades, and the result is barely tolerable. Are you sure it wouldn&#x27;t help more if you just stopped creating situations? If the problem is that you&#x27;re raising your kids inside a Skinner box, why would you think the solution is to make the walls less opaque? Are these the only terms in which you can think? You don&#x27;t need to answer that one.<p>&gt;When I taught humanities classes, I never talked about self-reflection, and I never invited students to talk about their feelings or their backgrounds or their experiences.<p>Well, you got that right, at least, if only by accident. And it has to have been by accident, because you think you got it wrong. The context couches this as a failure on your part, but why would it be? Why would you think that someone <i>else&#x27;s</i> self-reflection should have anything to do with <i>you</i>? You don&#x27;t need to answer that one, either.<p>So how does this amazing article finish? With its subject telling us about his own college experience, in the course of which comes this marvel, which I&#x27;ve emphasized so you don&#x27;t miss it:<p>&gt;I drifted for two or three years after college until I reached <i>a cinematic moment in my life</i>[...]<p>Why <i>cinematic</i>? Because we&#x27;ve all seen this movie. To call it &quot;transformative&quot; would be erroneous, because a plot twist doesn&#x27;t change the shape of the plot, it&#x27;s part of the story all along; to call it an &quot;epiphany&quot; would be the same, plus stupid, because we all know God is dead. Indeed, part of the interview describes how academia has tried to fill the former social role of religion and failed at it.<p>But this possibly quite significant point is glossed over entirely because it&#x27;s not important to Deresiewicz&#x27;s movie and therefore not important to the article or the audience, who are (presumed to be) in much the same state as the subject: their problem isn&#x27;t that they&#x27;ve failed to live the movie plot they thought they wanted, it&#x27;s that they&#x27;ve <i>succeeded</i> at it and found themselves nonetheless unfulfilled. Which is fine as far as it goes, what a shame for them but who cares, right? Except they&#x27;ve managed to inflict the same disaster on the next generation, because they are not only narcissistic but incredibly stupid besides.<p>And, having recognized the existence and nature of this error, what do they feel really matters? Is it that their descendants, their students, their supposed protegees, are going to have to find their way out of this clusterfuck on their own because everyone who might be expected to help them is too self-absorbed to bother and too stupid to succeed at it anyway? Of course not. No, what matters is who gets the blame, specifically that it be anyone but they themselves:<p>&gt;But the take home message is that everyone has to liberate themselves from this system. Education should be an act of liberation. We need to make a better system but ultimately everybody has to claim their freedom for themselves.<p>These are literally the last words in the article. Do you think that&#x27;s an accident? Because it&#x27;s not an accident.