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Bernie Sanders’s Tax Plan Would Test an Economic Hypothesis

69 点作者 salmonet超过 9 年前

26 条评论

chris_va超过 9 年前
&quot;&quot;&quot; Mr. Sanders has proposed a headline top tax rate of 52 percent, applying only to incomes over $10 million ... “We do not assume taxpayers change their behavior,” said Warren Gunnels, the policy director for the senator’s campaign. &quot;&quot;&quot;<p>... why?<p>The top marginal rate before Reagan was ~50%, and was lowered to 28%. Given this logic, you would expect that the US net tax revenue would have declined significantly in this period, which it did not. Basically, money just shifted from capital gains and corporate taxes to individual returns. If we increase the marginal rate again, it will likely just shift back without changing anything.
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jandrewrogers超过 9 年前
High income tax rates do not &quot;discourage greed&quot;, they merely cause it to manifest in different ways. Compensation structures in high tax jurisdictions like Europe reflect this, with myriad forms of lavish compensation for corporate executives that are technically not income, much more so than in locales where the taxes encourage people to simply write a check. An argument could be made that direct cash compensation in tax jurisdictions where that makes sense has the benefit of being a much more transparent kind of compensation.<p>Tax rates don&#x27;t change human nature, they merely change incentives.
devinhelton超过 9 年前
Even the 73% optimal tax rate proposed by Saez and Diamond is based on bogus analysis. The point of taxation is not to maximize government revenue -- if the government wants to maximize revenue it could just print dollar bills. The point is to maximize purchasing power. Thus the downside of high taxes is not manifested in lower government revenue in dollar terms. It is manifested in fewer startups and fewer risky investments, and thus fewer new technologies and new products. Overly high taxes change the equation for risk taking -- why try to start a business when if you succeed, you won&#x27;t keep that much of the winnings? If fewer people start businesses, the economy becomes more sclerotic as big corporations no longer have to face competition from upstarts.<p>The problem is that it is fundamentally impossible to quantitatively measure the impact of taxes on startups and economic dynamism. We know that if we taxed at 100%, we would likely have very few startups. But we do not know how much any given incremental change will hurt the economy. But as rough estimate, if the current tax rate is ~33%, and a tax rate of 100% would kill all startups, then a tax of 73% (the max rate proposed by Saez) would kill about half of startups (or rather, mean that they never exist. Immigrant founders would choose to start companies elsewhere, other founders would sell out early to a big company, and the big company would then just ruin the product like they normally do, etc.) Very roughly, such a tax rate might raise around an additional $100 billion. Would increasing total government revenue by 2% be worth killing half of all startups? That doesn&#x27;t sound like a good trade to me. (Of course I am personally biased on this issue).
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clavalle超过 9 年前
I am a Sander&#x27;s supporter so I say this more theoretically than as a criticism of his plan:<p>It scares me that in our political structure that we feel like we need to experiment with the whole country. I understand that if we don&#x27;t the super high income earners, in this case, would flee to cheaper areas but I sure prefer the idea of trying out large shifts in policy in more gradually widening areas than completely wholesale as we&#x27;ve been doing.<p>On a related note, what are the good software platforms for running economic simulations? Are any of them decent?
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jamiequint超过 9 年前
Successful entrepreneurs often make huge lump sums when their company is acquired, usually after many years of hard work and low pay.<p>Sanders&#x27; plan to make taxes on capital gains equal to those on ordinary income and to increase the marginal tax rate to effectively &gt; 80% (once state taxes are included if you live in CA or NY) is effectively a wealth transfer from the most productive part of the economy (new enterprise creation) to the least productive part (government).<p>Its a shame that we have a presidential candidate with this level of economic illiteracy that is still taken seriously by a large part of the country.
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djb_hackernews超过 9 年前
I am a Bernie supporter, but I have 2 issues: 1) I&#x27;m having a hard time understanding how such a policy shift could happen purely from the POTUS 2) Even if it did happen and we got single payer, I have a feeling it&#x27;d just turn in to another benefit for the employer. When employers no longer provide health insurance they&#x27;ll just keep the money for themselves and the employees won&#x27;t see the actual benefit, just the higher taxes. If my employer is currently paying 13k&#x2F;yr for family coverage and all of a sudden doesn&#x27;t have to, I doubt they&#x27;ll be adding that, or even some percentage, to my salary.
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grecy超过 9 年前
A hypothesis that has been tested and proven in many countries around the world for decades.<p>Not long ago my Dad was paying 50% income tax on ~$75k+ AUD. We had a nice upper-middle class life, no worries.
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ohitsdom超过 9 年前
This would be devastating to athletes. Take the NFL as an example. A player&#x27;s earning window is very short. Once their career is over, they often suffer from health problems and lack of training to do anything else. I don&#x27;t like the idea of taxing these guys at 70%+ when they&#x27;re giving up their bodies for money to last them a lifetime.<p>I know many athletes continue to get endorsements, speaking fees, and other income after their playing days are over. But that is only really significant money for the stars, and continues to decline as they age.<p>Obviously pro athletes are a very small percentage of the population, but it&#x27;s still interesting to consider how this impacts different professions.
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merpnderp超过 9 年前
Won&#x27;t this push a lot of highly payed professionals into early retirement? Doctors, lawyers, and managers, at the point in their careers where they are the most experienced and capable, will likely decide in meaningful numbers it is no longer worth putting in the hours if they only get to keep 27% of what they earned.
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jljljl超过 9 年前
If the high tax rate only applies to ordinary income, won&#x27;t this just shift compensation away from ordinary income and towards stock-based or alternative compensation?
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tyingq超过 9 年前
<i>&quot;Mr. Sanders...proposed a...top tax rate of 52 percent...When you combine it with other taxes that apply to income...it would add up to a combined tax rate of over 73 percent&quot;</i><p>I&#x27;m trying to imagine the scenario under which this would get through Congress unscathed.
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jpollock超过 9 年前
I saw this article listing the proposed new tax brackets.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fool.com&#x2F;retirement&#x2F;general&#x2F;2016&#x2F;02&#x2F;07&#x2F;bernie-sanders-income-tax-brackets-how-much-would.aspx" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fool.com&#x2F;retirement&#x2F;general&#x2F;2016&#x2F;02&#x2F;07&#x2F;bernie-san...</a><p>Personally, I can&#x27;t afford a house in the valley, and the new brackets would cost me an additional $10-15k&#x2F;yr, putting home ownership out of reach for a long time. In fact, the additional $10-15k&#x2F;yr would put me close to not being able to afford my rent.<p>That&#x27;s even before looking at the change to capital gains, which would tax them at the marginal rate.
heimatau超过 9 年前
It seems a lot of people are misinformed in this thread about Bernie&#x27;s plan. Here is a quick video explaining Berine&#x27;s plan to change Washington (by Robert Reich): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=VfIhonVoFSg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=VfIhonVoFSg</a><p>tldr; Bernie wants a political revolution of voting progressives which will put new Senators&#x2F;Congressmen(women) in DC, which will allow for new FDR like changes to occur.
ck2超过 9 年前
I love his spirit but absolutely nothing Bernie is selling can pass Congress which means absolutely nothing will change if he is elected.<p>You really think he could survive running for re-election at 80 years old?<p>Anyone old enough to remember Reagan will know what happens to people that old in the white house.<p>Not crazy about Hillary but I could live with her.<p>If Trump is elected, I&#x27;m somehow moving to Canada, not because of him, because of the 51% of people who elected him and having to live with them after surviving Bush.
ctdonath超过 9 年前
Being halfway thru reading &quot;Atlas Shrugged&quot;, I find it bewildering that on a site devoted to promoting the best of capitalistic productivity, so many posters adhere to compulsory redistribution of wealth confiscated from the productive.
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misiti3780超过 9 年前
This might work in other countries but I am skeptical it would work in the united states. I do like sanders ideas of reforming wall street:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;berniesanders.com&#x2F;issues&#x2F;reforming-wall-street&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;berniesanders.com&#x2F;issues&#x2F;reforming-wall-street&#x2F;</a><p>If he gets elected and can actually deliver on that promise, hopefully he can manage to siphoned off enough tax base from wall street alone to fund some of his other ideas.
mc32超过 9 年前
As most middling earners, I&#x27;d support taxing people at extraordinary incomes, but at the same time, I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s prudent to shock the economy with such a thing. Gradual does it, also work with other OECDs so that you have framework whereby you don&#x27;t have people becoming Russian residents for the purposes of evading extraordinary taxes, thus defeating the whole purpose of the hikes.
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ojbyrne超过 9 年前
As a progressive (but a highly-taxed one) I&#x27;d like to see defense spending cut by 50%+ first. That&#x27;s not going to happen either.
tmaly超过 9 年前
I would like to see Mr Sanders proposed rates for the middle class and what range of income he deems to be middle class. Middle class in SF or NYC is much different than say Detroit, MI.<p>Housing costs, cost of living, and local taxes are not really factored into the current federal tax rates, and higher rates on the middle class could hurt a lot of people.
MrZongle2超过 9 年前
Of course, this assumes Sanders even makes it to the general election. Despite his polling, the skeptic in me thinks that the Clinton campaign will be the Democratic candidate on the ticket in November....public support be damned, she&#x27;s the candidate that the establishment wants.
SN76477超过 9 年前
I think Sanders has radical ideas that will not work in America... I also support him for this reason.<p>We do not need to be the next Norway, but we should have much better healthcare, education and intolerance of greed. I think that his fresh ideas will really bring this to fruition.
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JDiculous超过 9 年前
It bothers me that our politicians always talk about taxing labor income but never talk about taxing land values and&#x2F;or capital. We need more economists coming up with tax plans rather than politicians.<p>(I say this as someone who will vote for Bernie Sanders)
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ghouse超过 9 年前
The US already tested the &quot;trickle down&quot; economic hypothesis.
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mrfusion超过 9 年前
Maybe we should move into doing a luxory sales tax instead? 100% sales tax on yatches and cars over 100k? 20% tax on homes over one million?
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greggyb超过 9 年前
Why not make it cheaper to pay taxes than to pay accountants, lawyers, and financial strategists to avoid those taxes in the first place?
lintiness超过 9 年前
there&#x27;s a fundamental flaw in the reasoning: if single payer healthcare plans save money, why do we need higher tax rates?
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