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Feds nail webcam on utility pole for 10 weeks to spy on suspect

63 点作者 pavornyoh超过 9 年前

15 条评论

jonpaine超过 9 年前
I&#x27;m intrigued by the idea&#x2F;necessity of some &quot;non-omniscience&quot; factor in weighing 4th amendment cases moving forward.<p>The argument is always that they&#x27;re only tracking the &quot;same views enjoyed by passersby on public roads&quot;, attempting to create a false equivalence between a camera and a human.<p>This has always been a pet peeve of mine, because there are factors that nullify the projected equivalence: each of these &#x27;passersby&#x27; on the public road can only be in one place at one time. They are not omniscient. Further, there is an assumed limit to the amount of data they can collect (what can one person see from that street corner) and an assumed cost to the collection of that data (and therefore: even a government is limited in the scope of collection; they can&#x27;t place an agent infront of every house on every street). These were the assumptions present in the time of the writing of the amendment. These assumptions only apply to the economics of humans, not cameras, and materially changes the effect of the law in the present day.<p>Courts will need a mechanism to articulate that a camera is not equivalent to a passerby. It&#x27;s not a question of function, it&#x27;s a question of scope. Much like anti-trust laws or regulations against cornering economic markets don&#x27;t differentiate based on function, but the scope of the function. When it comes to privacy - the kind that the Fourth Amendment was written to protect - yes, placing agents on corners is substantially different than placing cameras on corners.
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tzs超过 9 年前
&gt; &quot;There is no Fourth Amendment violation, because Houston had no reasonable expectation of privacy in video footage recorded by a camera that was located on top of a public utility pole and that captured the same views enjoyed by passersby on public roads&quot;, Judge John Rogers wrote for the unanimous court [...]<p>There are two big differences between passersby and unobtrusive fixed cameras.<p>• Passersby are generally easily noticeable.<p>• Passersby pass by.<p>A level of care that would make one safe with a high probability against being seen by passersby might fail completely against unobtrusive fixed cameras, so I&#x27;m not sure that the passersby-could-see standard should be the one used for cameras.<p>For example at a house my family had when I was a kid we were out in the country in a flat valley. From the end of our driveway I could see far enough up and down the road to see any potential passersby a minute away and postpone anything sensitive I wanted to do in the front yard until they had passed by.<p>On the other hand, I suppose that even if we decide not to allow law enforcement to use unobtrusive fixed cameras in situations like this it won&#x27;t stop private parties from using them. Any private property that has a view into your private property could be a place where someone has decided to do some video voyeurism and is recoding.<p>Maybe the technological cat is out of the bag and we are just going to have to accept that if you don&#x27;t want something seen you need to do it somewhere where there is no visibility from anywhere outside your property.
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charonn0超过 9 年前
&gt; The lower court ruled in Houston&#x27;s case that, even if the long-term warrantless surveillance breached Houston&#x27;s Fourth Amendment rights, the video evidence of his carrying weapons on the property would not be excluded at trial because the authorities said they held a good-faith belief that the spying was constitutional.<p>Ignorance of the law is no defense, unless your job is to defend the law?
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DannyBee超过 9 年前
The court makes a pretty bad argument here, and one that if it went to the supreme court, would get torn apart (regardless of how they ruled) : &quot;&quot;Moreover, if law enforcement were required to engage in live surveillance without the aid of technology in this type of situation, then the advance of technology would one-sidedly give criminals the upper hand. The law cannot be that modern technological advances are off-limits to law enforcement when criminals may use them freely.&quot;&quot;<p>Except, nobody has argued it&#x27;s off limits, instead, they argue <i>that using that technology should require a warrant</i>. The argument that criminals can use the technology freely is also pretty much a non-starter. The whole point of the 4th amendment is to say that law enforcement can&#x27;t freely do searches even if others could.<p>By ignoring this point, the court makes the opinion a <i>lot</i> weaker than it could have been.
cannikin超过 9 年前
The judge said that the webcam provided them the same view, from a public place, that agents would have had if assigned to watch the guy 24&#x2F;7. (It seems to me that the view from ~30ft up is very different than one from the ground.)<p>Is there a line where the surveillance would NOT be legal? Could they have had a drone circling his house? What about a satellite? Do you have an expectation of privacy from ABOVE your house even if you don&#x27;t have it from public roads?
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aksquestions超过 9 年前
Isn&#x27;t the real story here that this guy was acquitted of murdering a police officer and was thus targeted by law enforcement for retribution? His 2010 felony conviction was for &quot;evading arrest&quot;, which is what led to him being deprived of his 2nd amendment rights and thus set the tripwire for this violation. But what would you do if you knew law enforcement had it out for you for killing one of their own?
ChuckMcM超过 9 年前
And in this case (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;tech-policy&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;cops-illegally-nailed-webcam-to-utility-pole-for-6-weeks-to-spy-on-house&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;tech-policy&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;cops-illegally-na...</a>) the camera video was ruled inadmissible.<p>I expect this to get to the Supreme Court given the constitutional argument but I really have no idea how they might come down on the issue.
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fweespeech超过 9 年前
As long as its a webcam-per-suspect-per-place-of-business basis and not a mass grab to do this across entire geographical areas it seems fine.<p>The problem is when they go nuts and try to capture &quot;everything&quot;. The balance between the effort to keep an eye on a specific suspect in a specific case + budget&#x2F;manpower&#x2F;etc is reasonable vs our need for privacy.
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private_citizen超过 9 年前
As a private citizen, can I go around nailing up cameras on utility poles?<p>I assume the federal government does not own the pole, so it would require the permission of the pole owner and&#x2F;or the municipality, no?
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Zikes超过 9 年前
&gt; &quot;Moreover, if law enforcement were required to engage in live surveillance without the aid of technology in this type of situation, then the advance of technology would one-sidedly give criminals the upper hand. The law cannot be that modern technological advances are off-limits to law enforcement when criminals may use them freely.&quot;<p>Nobody said you can&#x27;t use webcams for surveillance, just that you need a <i>warrant</i> because that&#x27;s how the law works.<p>At least, that&#x27;s how the law is <i>supposed</i> to work.
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progressive_dad超过 9 年前
Personally, I welcome our new free webcams. Next time they&#x27;re retrieved and plugged into a machine on the ATF VPN I&#x27;ll immediately have all the evidence my defense team is legally entitled to for discovery.
Spooky23超过 9 年前
This isn&#x27;t a new thing. In the old days, a guy in a Verizon van would wire up a cctv on a pole to a nearby storefront or apartment and record the goings on.<p>I think the only difference here is the rural nature of the location.
newman314超过 9 年前
I won&#x27;t repeat the points others have made on this thread but I find the following pretty insane. That judge should not be permitted to give LE what amounts to a mulligan.<p>--<p><pre><code> Writing separately, Judge Thomas Rose said that the authorities had enough probable cause to get a warrant, and that their failure to do so was &quot;harmless.&quot;</code></pre>
arprocter超过 9 年前
Something doesn&#x27;t make sense to me:<p>Guy became a felon in 2004, but is involved in a shooting in 2006, and now the feds suspect he might have illegal access to firearms (because felons aren&#x27;t allowed guns) - how did he not get popped for that after the shooting in 2006?
Turbo_hedgehog超过 9 年前
I have no problem with this.