The Siege of Herbalife (2015)

135 点作者 todayiamme超过 9 年前

15 条评论

Good. I hope he is successful in taking them down. I know too many people who've wasted $$ falling prey to these MLM scams.I know an emergency room physician who stopped working as an MD to sell Arbonne products (another MLM like herbalife that sells makeup and diet shakes) after getting roped into it by a nurse we worked with. Now she is in the nurse's "downline." Utter waste of an education.

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Outdoorsman超过 9 年前

Interesting article...lots of up-votes, but few weighing in... I'll give it a go...Money is at stake for one side..a stock has been publicly shorted...Money, and a "way of life" created, for many, by an organizational structure (MLM), is at stake for Herbalife, to include it's financial managers, distributors and customers...I can only respond by sharing my own personal experiences with MLMs...I've never been approached by anyone that I suspected was knowingly, or unknowingly, involved in an MLM-type business that was selling a product I couldn't live without...and in many cases the "peddlers" had obviously been coached to tout benefits that I firmly believed didn't exist, or weren't possible...This to include lotions, juices, air purifiers, supplements, etc...you name it...In this specific case I can say the same...I try to go with the best available evidence whenever I can...I've never seen any evidence that a normal healthy person derives significant benefit from supplements of any kind...vitamins, herbs, juice extracts, whatever...I'm wary of "snake oil" to a fault...if you aren't well seek medical advice...buying something from a salesman is possibly one of the worst things you can do if you're concerned about your health...spend that money getting yourself checked out...The question for me is not whether Herbalife offers any kind of a health benefit to consumers, or an economic benefit to those involved in it's distribution network...The question to be answered is whether or not a "whistle-blower" should ethically be allowed to profit, substantially, from blowing that whistle...

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hammock超过 9 年前

You have to wonder that something bigger is going on behind the scenes. George Soros was invested in Herbalife at the time this article was published. In November he exited his position.Carl Icahn is an investor in Herbalife. Bill Ackman has been trying to destroy it.Are these investment tycoons waging some kind of proxy war against each other?

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contingencies超过 9 年前

I live in China you do see a lot of Herbalife and Amway stuff here. It's the oldest trick in the book ... 1.4 billion people with a relative educational deficit and a huge social pressure to get rich quick ... a social system favoring small transactions among friends and family ... widespread appreciation of 'foreign' products as status items ... a fertile recruiting grounds for MLMs. Circa 2005 I went for a blind massage and the masseur began with "The American Amway company..."

musesum超过 9 年前

Funny, from this page: <a href="http://catalog.herbalife.com/Catalog/en-US/Core-Products/Core-Products/Formula-1-Healthy-Meal-Nutritional-Shake-Mix" rel="nofollow">http://catalog.herbalife.com/Catalog/en-US/Core-Products/Cor...</a>I click on "BBB Accredited Business" link which leads to a BBB page that states: "THIS BUSINESS IS NOT BBB ACCREDITED"I click on the "Direct Selling Association" Link, which brings up a 404.

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carbonatedmilk超过 9 年前

John Hempton, who is mentioned in the article, has an awesome, frank blog at <a href="http://brontecapital.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://brontecapital.blogspot.com</a>. Of course he's often 'talking his book', but he's always well researched and (I think) surprisingly open for a hedge fund manager about what he's thinking.

JacobAldridge超过 9 年前

It sounds to me like Ackman has made the right bet, just ten years too late. I remember researching Herbalife a lot back in 2002, off the back of these excellent articles by Rob Cockerham [1], and it definitely appeared as immoral as the Amway businesses I'd researched at the time as well.I don't fully 'believe' the figures presented by Herbalife in this report, about returns, purchasers from outside the network etc. BUT it certainly seems that the business model and culture has dramatically shifted under Michael Johnson.Had Ackman shorted this in 2002 not 2012 [2], I suspect his accusations would have stuck and he may well have prompted the FTC to improve their MLM guidelines. He may ultimately do us all a disservice by making all anti-MLM activists appear to be arrogant and greedy.[1] <a href="http://www.cockeyed.com/workfromhome/workfromhome.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cockeyed.com/workfromhome/workfromhome.html</a>[2] Which wasn't an option, because 1) it was privately held at that time (or thereabouts), and 2) Ackman was recovering from his previous fund's collapse.

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ryporter超过 9 年前

The question posed by this article is unfair, because it labels Ackman as a regulator. He has absolutely no regulatory authority, and if you want to claim that his money allows him to act as one, then what of all of the money put behind Herbalife by billionaire investors? Are they regulators propping up a company?There was an investigation into Herbalife because there are legitimate questions about its business practices that Ackman drew attention to through his research. If he were a regulator, then his massive bet would have fared far better than it has.

mixmastamyk超过 9 年前

Weird situation. Being from southern California, I've been asked to join Herbalife a few times but each time turned it down since it wasn't a good fit for me (I'm not interested in sales).However the people and company were always straight-forward about how it worked, so I never felt they were "shady" as the guy in the article accuses. On the other hand, I didn't know what to make of it completely.

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kriro超过 9 年前

It's an interesting saga. I haven't researched it much so here's my gut take from reading the story and remembering earlier discussions...(Sadly) I think supplements and questionable weight loss products are a real market and will be bought in the future even without any scientific backing. Which makes me weary of Ackman's bet. It seems like Herbalife has actually changed stuff quite a bit and could very well just be selling to people if they changed distribution to direct sales. They are selling snakeoil (imo) but they still seem to sell to real consumers at the end of the line and don't stock stuff in warehouses.Since this is the crux of the argument from my point of view I wonder why he didn't conduct any large sample survey before mounting the attack. It seems like a good step 0 to gather data on one of your major arguments but in fact...""" “Surveys are notoriously unreliable,” he responds. There’s no substitute for seeing the distributors’ actual retail records, he insists. """That doesn't sound convincing at all.

PakG1超过 9 年前

If I had the money of Ackman, I'm not sure I'd spend it for the purpose of destroying a company, even if I was sure it was fraudulent. There are so many ways it can go sideways, and a hundred more could rise in its place too, so what's the point besides the quick profit? Yeah, it's all about money, but the bigger picture would frighten me.As a private party, I'm not a regulator. I'm not the authorities. I'm not going to go play financial Batman just because I think the normal authorities aren't getting it done. I'll raise noise about the issue if I really care about it, sure. I'll testify findings in court. But bet money on it? The optics look horrible. All my ideas and findings suddenly become suspect and the question is whether I care about what's right or about making money at the expense of what I perceive to be weak targets.Let me make money in ways where my approach is above reproach and I'm not questioned about my motives. Why put my efforts and money towards something where I could get my name tarnished?Or Ackman doesn't think this way because he's one of the so-called masters of the universe and his resulting ego has put him on another level?

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gesman超过 9 年前

Companies engaging in MLM strategies often offers superior quality, beneficial products. I personally use one on occasions just because I know it works really well for what I need.However MLM as a marketing strategy especially sprinkled with "business opportunity" hype is as close to scam as it can be without crossing the barrier.Tons of people are misleaded into false expectations of making living just by finding candidates and signing them up.While I see mr. Ackman's efforts nothing more than ego- [and possibly boredom] driven personal quest, the MLM industry needs to be forced into full and very clear disclosure of "business opportunity" fragment. These promises are clearly misleading and grossly overhyped.

tluyben2超过 9 年前

I built a large social networking mlm for a client. The coding was fun but it left me feeling bad. It is catching people when they are desperate. I do not really believe in limiting a lot by law but people cannot protect themselves when they are down.

sreenadh超过 9 年前

I want to ask another question. I have tried Herbalife and I feel that the product is but I do not like their MLM system.Is there any product like herbalife but without the MLM part.

simplexion超过 9 年前

Is he right about Herbalife being a pyramid scheme?Is this really a question requiring an answer?

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