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Austrian Minister Calls for a Constitutional Right to Pay in Cash

96 点作者 randomname2超过 9 年前

14 条评论

cesarb超过 9 年前
Everybody in these discussions always mention privacy, but there&#x27;s an equally important consideration which seems to be often forgotten: reliability.<p>With electronic forms of money transfer, both the sender and the receiver need to have an account with some entity. There have been cases where pressure has been put on these entities to close someone&#x27;s account, like for instance <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;deeplinks&#x2F;2015&#x2F;07&#x2F;caving-government-pressure-visa-and-mastercard-shut-down-payments-backpagecom" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;deeplinks&#x2F;2015&#x2F;07&#x2F;caving-government-pres...</a> . With cash, there&#x27;s no risk of someone closing your account, since it doesn&#x27;t need one.<p>And, of course, there&#x27;s the fact that all working electronic forms of money transfer I&#x27;ve seen are online; if the network is down, you can&#x27;t do anything. Cash is offline.
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HappyTypist超过 9 年前
With negative interest rates becoming more prevalent and the IMF calling for the abolishment of cash to allow levying negative interest rates on all balances, I think it&#x27;s perfectly valid to want a right to pay in cash.<p>On the other hand, negative interest rates have been prevalent for all of fiat history, thanks to monetary base and commercial bank money inflation. Negative nominal rates only make it more explicit.
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jmnicolas超过 9 年前
What we need is not the right to pay in cash but the right to pay anonymously.<p>In fact we need a broader constitutional right of privacy.
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DominikR超过 9 年前
A few reasons why banning cash is a bad idea:<p>1) When you get into financial trouble and are unemployable for some reason, there is no way for you to earn something on the side so you can feed your family and pay the bills.<p>You can only submit to social services. There was one case in Germany where social services threatened a women to cut off the payments if she didn&#x27;t take a job as waitress in a brothel. This is an extreme example, but you get the idea why it is a always a bad idea to be dependant on some bureaucrat.<p>2) The only ways to earn money or trade is to take a job or create a business. As it happens the government controls what types of jobs and businesses are allowed. This is also bad for businesses as not every startup is being run from the very beginning like a serious business following all regulations. Often it is a side business that develops into something bigger.<p>3) A group of politicians decides to run a media campaign to demonise a certain profession or type of business. You can now expect that you get a special XX% tax or loose your money because how could you dare to be successful.<p>4) I imagine it is very nice for power hungry officials to know about every payment made and received by every citizen. Did you ever buy something (of course legal) that you wouldn&#x27;t like everyone to know about? Well if you do something they don&#x27;t like this might end up in the public.<p>5) it gets very hard to invest money in a way that prevents you from being taxed arbitrarily by the government. (for example haircuts) Even if you bought physical gold the government would know about this and demand you to give them a share.
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lifty超过 9 年前
I am suspicious of their motives. They say it&#x27;s to curb illicit trade using anonymous cash but I&#x27;m suspecting they will like the side effects of removing cash. People wouldn&#x27;t be able to do bank runs as easily which would give even more leverage to the central financial planners using techniques like negative interest rates. I really think cash shouldn&#x27;t be abolished until we have a decent alternative(maybe some crypto currency).
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moonshinefe超过 9 年前
I wouldn&#x27;t bet any money on Western governments guaranteeing anonymity when it comes to electronic payments in this day and age. If such protections can be granted to cash, that&#x27;d be a win, in my opinion--even if it isn&#x27;t a complete solution.
a3n超过 9 年前
Without cash, how will you give money to beggars?
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neximo4超过 9 年前
Cash is underappreciated today in the name of terrorist financing and etc.<p>Its easy to give to someone to buy stuff for you or pay them back or save up pieces.<p>Electronic cash can&#x27;t do everything it can do with as much simplicity.<p>Admittedly with larger amounts there&#x27;s no doubt to the electronic system.<p>In Sweden its kind of frowned upon to pay in cash, which is weird.
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rnnr超过 9 年前
It&#x27;s amazing what has been written for public cameras and their privacy issues when at the same time your lovely government wants to know all your domestic purchases or even you to report them incomes you receive in other countries.
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LoSboccacc超过 9 年前
I&#x27;m conflicted. Bags of cash are also the preferred way to conduct shady business. I think some cash flow limit from each account would work better than a classic either&#x2F;or solution.
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rrockstar超过 9 年前
I wonder if the minister wants this right to be enforced at every shop. Should I <i>always</i> be able to pay cash for goods&#x2F;services? What if I buy something online?<p>Card payments also have many upsides besides ease of use for the customer. Currently the Amsterdam transport company is planning to disallow cash payments in buses because of the many armed robberies of bus drivers.
randomname2超过 9 年前
This proposal may be due to the increased calls to ban cash:<p>- Bloomberg: Bring on the cashless future [1]<p>- FT: The benefits of scrapping cash [2]<p>- Bloomberg: Europol Director Sees Case for Scrapping High-Value Banknotes [3]<p>- Handelsblatt: The death of cash [4]<p>- Norway&#x27;s Biggest Bank Calls For Country To Stop Using Cash [5]<p>- Spiegel: Leading German Economist Calls For Cash Ban [6]<p>- Bloomberg: Citi Economist Says It&#x27;s Time to Abolish Cash [7]<p>- Telegraph: Bank Of England Chief Economist Calls For Cash Ban, Urges Negative Rates [8]<p>And from a Morgan Stanley presentation, in which its head of EMEA equity research Huw van Steenis, points out [9]:<p>&quot;What I learned at Davos: We should move quickly to a cashless economy so that we could introduce negative rates well below 1% - policy maker&quot;<p>..adding: &quot;One of the most surprising comments this year came from a closed session on fintech where I sat next to someone in policy circles who argued that we should move quickly to a cashless economy so that we could introduce negative rates well below 1% – as they were concerned that Larry Summers&#x27; secular stagnation was indeed playing out and we would be stuck with negative rates for a decade in Europe. They felt below (1.5)% depositors would start to hoard notes, leading to yet further complexities for monetary policy.&quot;<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloombergview.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2016-01-31&#x2F;bring-on-the-cashless-future" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloombergview.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2016-01-31&#x2F;bring-on-th...</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;intl&#x2F;cms&#x2F;s&#x2F;8ef4dcb0-ca6f-11e5-be0b-b7ece4e953a0,Authorised=false.html?siteedition=intl" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;intl&#x2F;cms&#x2F;s&#x2F;8ef4dcb0-ca6f-11e5-be0b-b7ece4e...</a><p>[3] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2016-02-08&#x2F;high-value-banknotes-should-be-binned-to-fight-crime-sands-says" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2016-02-08&#x2F;high-value...</a><p>[4] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;global.handelsblatt.com&#x2F;edition&#x2F;354&#x2F;ressort&#x2F;finance&#x2F;article&#x2F;the-death-of-cash" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;global.handelsblatt.com&#x2F;edition&#x2F;354&#x2F;ressort&#x2F;finance&#x2F;...</a><p>[5] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ibtimes.com&#x2F;norways-biggest-bank-calls-country-stop-using-cash-2276140" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ibtimes.com&#x2F;norways-biggest-bank-calls-country-st...</a><p>[6] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.spiegel.de&#x2F;wirtschaft&#x2F;soziales&#x2F;bargeld-peter-bofinger-will-muenzen-und-scheine-abschaffen-a-1033905.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.spiegel.de&#x2F;wirtschaft&#x2F;soziales&#x2F;bargeld-peter-bofi...</a><p>[7] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2015-04-10&#x2F;citi-economist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2015-04-10&#x2F;citi-econo...</a><p>[8] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.telegraph.co.uk&#x2F;finance&#x2F;bank-of-england&#x2F;11874061&#x2F;Negative-interest-rates-could-be-necessary-to-protect-UK-economy-says-Bank-of-England-chief-economist.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.telegraph.co.uk&#x2F;finance&#x2F;bank-of-england&#x2F;11874061&#x2F;...</a><p>[9] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;qnEwiha" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;qnEwiha</a>
tumdum_超过 9 年前
It&#x27;s a pity that franc is no longer backed by gold.
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chvid超过 9 年前
I am kinda hoping for things to go the other way.<p>Let anyone (any person, any company) have an account in the central bank and use that directly for payments. Let that and only that be &quot;legal tender&quot;.<p>Then there would be no need for the government to do costly guarantees for depositors in private banks, no need for cash, no need for a costly blockchain and so on.<p>Taxes could be collected much fairer and efficient.<p>Negative interests rates could be implemented without distortions.
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