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Is group chat making you sweat?

226 点作者 j4pe大约 9 年前

25 条评论

Stratoscope大约 9 年前
&gt; All sorts of eventual bad happens when a company begins thinking one-line-at-a-time most of the time.<p>theres a style i see a lot<p>of complicating on slack<p>^ communicating<p>where they type everything line by line<p>like this<p>not much punctuation<p>hardly any capital letters<p>never use the edit feature to correct anything<p>just type another line with ^ and the word you meant<p>and everyone sees that &quot;Stratoscope is typing&quot; message<p>the entire time<p>it makes me crazy<p>I seem to be the odd man out in some Slack teams and channels. When I write something, even on Slack, I try to write it to be <i>read</i>. Sentences, paragraphs, punctuation, and grammar make things easier to read.<p>Of course I leave out the email-style &quot;Hi Sally,&quot; intro and &quot;Thanks, -Mike&quot; closing, and keep it shorter and less formal.<p>If I&#x27;m writing more than a sentence or two, I&#x27;ll sometimes type it into a separate text editor first, just so people won&#x27;t have to see that &quot;Mike is typing&quot; the whole time. And so I don&#x27;t accidentally hit Enter and send out my half-baked draft!<p>I also have to admit to a prejudice: when I see consistently sloppy writing from a programmer, I start to wonder what their <i>code</i> is like. Do they code in a way that&#x27;s quick to write, or easy to read?<p>To be clear, by &quot;sloppy&quot; I don&#x27;t mean the kinds of mistakes that can be expected and forgiven from a non-native speaker. And I don&#x27;t mean the casual informality that is natural for the medium. I&#x27;m talking about the barely coherent style of writing I used at the top of this comment.<p>The line by line stream of thought seems lazy to me. It&#x27;s distracting, hard to read, and doesn&#x27;t feel respectful of the reader.<p>but maybe thats just me
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untog大约 9 年前
I think Slack really needs to tweak their default notification settings. Before you know what you&#x27;re doing you end up with an anxiety-inducing list of bolded room names after you&#x27;ve been away from your machine for 10 minutes.<p>Or maybe they shouldn&#x27;t <i>have</i> defaults - when you join a room it should ask you how you want to be notified. Since I&#x27;ve set 90% of the rooms I&#x27;m in to &quot;muted until someone @s me&quot; I&#x27;ve found it to be a much better experience, but setting that up was a pain.
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hunvreus大约 9 年前
The cynic in me can&#x27;t help but notice that this post seems to reframe Basecamp and similar solutions as the central collaboration hubs, with team chats being additional tools.<p>Given the fact that 37Signals refocused on Basecamp a couple years ago [1], and given the aggressive competition they must be facing from Slack and the likes (on top of other project management platforms like Trello or Asana), this is pretty understandable.<p>I agree with some of the points made, mostly that you should have some sort of asynchronous, slower pace type of hub that should act more or less as the source of truth and progress. For my team, it&#x27;s been GitHub for a while [2], and I haven&#x27;t met a (functioning) team who did without. At the very least, there&#x27;s a Hackpad or a whiteboard somewhere that lists what needs to be done and where things are at.<p>Is it sometimes frustrating to be constantly connected to your entire team? Sure. Does it breed expectations of immediacy? Sure. But this is not specific to the workplace: Uber, Tinder, Airbnb, ... heck iMessage. We&#x27;ve already been down that road for a few years now. Just look at how frustrated one can be when you chose not to answer a text for a day.<p>Teams that have their sh*t together will use something like Basecamp, Asana, Trello or GitHub. But the problem the author raises here is much larger than just work collaboration and I very much doubt that this global trend will curb in the short to middle term. We will build behaviors to cope with the culture of &quot;now&quot;, but I very much doubt that it will look like Basecamp.<p>[1]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.inc.com&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;201403&#x2F;jason-fried&#x2F;basecamp-focus-one-product-only.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.inc.com&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;201403&#x2F;jason-fried&#x2F;basecamp-focu...</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiredcraft.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;github-for-everything&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiredcraft.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;github-for-everything&#x2F;</a>
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ludbb大约 9 年前
My productivity increases so much when I shutdown chat apps I can only wish people responsible for setting them up at companies would stop for a minute and read this. Only the fact that the app is running is enough to reduce my output since I&#x27;ll switch to it regularly no matter what.
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easyd大约 9 年前
Do posts from signalvsnoise.com get a penalty or are they just always flagged? I&#x27;m asking cause this was just posted an hour ago, has 157 points&#x2F;47 comments, and is already falling from the first page. And this seems like a pattern.
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fmavituna大约 9 年前
With 7 years experience of running a remote &amp; distributed team (5+ countries) at Netsparker [1].<p>We have 4 platforms:<p>* Bug Tracking &#x2F; Project Management<p>* Group Chat<p>* Skype &#x2F; Voice<p>* Email<p>Since we grew organically, here is how I shaped the culture from 2 team members to 20 and quite happy with it at the moment:<p>Groupchat is for &quot;2. Red Alerts&quot; (via @everyone mentions), &quot;3.Having Fun&quot; and &quot;4. Sense of belonging&quot;. Finally to share random stuff from funny moments to interesting articles. Stuff that&#x27;s completely optional to consume. Very very rarely for &quot;Hashing things out quickly&quot; for that we use Skype. If you want to toss an idea back and forth, just talk. If you are not in the same timezone just wait for all to be in the same timezone (we don&#x27;t have extreme timezone differences, max is about 10 hours)<p>Voice is for pretty much everything else. We don&#x27;t type or discuss anything on chat if it&#x27;s more than 3 message exchanges, when that happens someone just calls. It&#x27;s just waste of time, we just get on a call and talk. We also have a routine of initiating skype calls to ensure it&#x27;s normal to call people but it&#x27;s also normal to ignore calls as well. So you have the option to quickly talk but also option to not be distracted.<p>We made it OK to be offline. Especially for devs it&#x27;s OK to just be offline.<p>If something is really urgent, we&#x27;ll call you or send you a text message. Which rarely happens.<p>If it&#x27;s a task&#x2F;bug put it into the bug tracking system. Then it&#x27;ll be visible on the developer chat channel automatically.<p>So we found that voice chat is superior to pretty much anything else for many purposes. Another habit we are getting better at is taking notes in voice conversations and putting them on to the tasks.<p>These make text group chat a very minimal part of the flow. Another good example: I was away for 2 weeks and it took me about 10 minutes to catch up with all the group chat because we use it sparsely and discussions always use threads (this is something we teach during the orientation) so you can read the first line and just skip the whole thing.<p>Maybe it works because we have only 20 people, we&#x27;re planning to continue to do this until it doesn&#x27;t work anymore.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.netsparker.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.netsparker.com</a>
liotier大约 9 年前
TL;DR : don&#x27;t use synchronous channels for asynchronous communication.<p>There is a continuum from real-time discursive to solid archived legally-binding documentation, with a whole nuanced palette in-between... But - everything in chatrooms, everything in mailing lists, everything in web forums, everything in ticketing, everything in a wiki, everything in IRC, everything in Slack: I&#x27;ve seen all those fads... When the only tool you have is a hammer etc.<p>I believe that the deeper problem is about the tool selection process - not just bottom-up vs. top-down but also the bonding produced by the community that forms around a tool and the way it emerges from peer opinion leaders... False consensus is easy to achieve and it becomes apparent once media fatigue begins to occur as practical pressure overcomes social pressure.
jgrahamc大约 9 年前
I have Hipchat (tool used internally at my company) set to no notifications at all for group chats. I get notified by 1&#x2F;1 chats and I selectively enable notification for &#x27;hot&#x27; rooms (i.e when I&#x27;m dealing with a specific problem that needs my attention now).
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newscracker大约 9 年前
What I took back from this article was that it&#x27;s not about Slack vs. Hipchat vs. IRC vs. Skype vs. Basecamp or anything else. Whatever you do with your S&#x2F;H&#x2F;I&#x2F;S&#x2F;B app settings, the very mode of communication without specific granular contexts and separation of those contexts (like in email) is a big issue, not some notification setting that could possibly get rid of the issues of this medium.<p>Chat has its benefits as mentioned in the article, but there is a big deal of frustration -- &quot;How do I respond to point #1 by A, point #2 by B, point #3 by C, point #4 by D that was in reply to point #2 by B&quot;-- and exhaustion -- &quot;I can never catch up with this&quot; -- not to mention it being futile in some cases.<p>If the topic at hand is granular enough (which never is the case, especially when dealing with complex things like software design and development) then chats could be useful. For anything broader, depending on people&#x27;s availability, asynchronous communication (say email) or synchronous voice communication (say a phone or VoIP call with a shared whiteboard) may be better choices with more focus and productivity.<p>The whole problem exponentially increases in its (negative) impact with the addition of more people into a group chat. This part has commonality with other communication modes, but the way to control it and the effectiveness of controlling it vary.<p>On a tangent, a voice call with a larger group is useless unless it has a shared screen or presentation to keep people&#x27;s eyes also busy and in sync. If there&#x27;s a way to make people participate, that&#x27;s a big bonus. Otherwise many will drift off to chat windows, email, browser tabs, etc., resulting in the oft-repeated phrase in conference calls &quot;Sorry, I didn&#x27;t get that last part. Could you please repeat it?&quot; :)
PhasmaFelis大约 9 年前
On the subject of Slack and its shortcomings, I&#x27;m not happy with the apparently deliberate rolling-back of WYSIWYG for online communication. Early web forums used flat text or manual HTML because browser&#x2F;tech limitations made WYSIWYG hard or impossible, but that style has somehow become a standard decades after it stopped being technically relevant.<p>I can kinda-sorta understand it for deliberately minimalistic web interfaces like HN&#x27;s, but Slack isn&#x27;t even limited to a web app. Why do I have to use their idiosyncratic markup instead of just hitting Ctrl-I like every other desktop app for the past 20 years? (<i>Underscores</i> for italics, really?) Why can&#x27;t I make a normal hyperlink with normal link text, instead of ramming a mile-long URL with a big ugly preview image into the chat?
skyhatch1大约 9 年前
Semi-related story: Slack lost us a partnership deal<p>Last year, I met with the EVP of a division at a Fortune 500 company in New York, to discuss a partnership opportunity for our software company.<p>His direct reports had talked us up to him because we had a highly differentiated offering for a crowded space; one which his company was competing in.<p>It all went south as soon as the EVP recalled his experience with Slack. &quot;You guys sound like this Slack we tried last month.&quot; While our product didn&#x27;t handle group chat whatsoever, I couldn&#x27;t convince him otherwise.<p>According to him, Slack increased the noise in their communications because they &quot;worked on a long-term case&#x2F;problem basis&quot; and they and &quot;always refer back to conversations&quot;, which was difficult to do with constant chatter.
henrik_w大约 9 年前
Related: Slack, I&#x27;m Breaking Up With You<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;better-people&#x2F;slack-i-m-breaking-up-with-you-54600ace03ea#.7008ysisc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;better-people&#x2F;slack-i-m-breaking-up-with-...</a>
passive大约 9 年前
As a remote employee who has successfully pushed Flowdock into the culture of my last three employers, I&#x27;ve got things to say here. :)<p>I think the core thing is to treat group chat like physical office chat. So:<p><pre><code> - Don&#x27;t use it to make decisions - Don&#x27;t expect anyone is paying attention - If you need someone to pay attention, @ them - Stay in flows&#x2F;rooms&#x2F;groups with your close working companions, visit others when needed </code></pre> Maybe I&#x27;ve been lucky that this has come pretty naturally to the people I work with, but Flowdock has been a lifesaver for me, and gone a long way towards making it easier to hire more remote people.
swanson大约 9 年前
Whether or not you buy what they are selling (this is an ad for Basecamp over Slack) -- there are some great points raised that I think are worth thinking through even if you are all-in on Slack&#x2F;Hipchat&#x2F;etc.<p>I found the &quot;one-line at a time thinking&quot; and &quot;announcements aren&#x27;t chat&quot; to be very elegant ways of describing some hangups I&#x27;ve had with group chat and I have a few very actionable changes that I hope to make in my day-to-day work life.
chejazi大约 9 年前
For many of the same downsides, I have chosen to sign out of iMessage on my Mac. I used to think &quot;wow, this so convenient!&quot; but the accessibility ruins my focus when I&#x27;m working.<p>I think there is a dramatic difference for people who are even <i>slightly</i> socially anxious. I know I have an impulse to give social situations more attention than what&#x27;s needed, exaggerating the distractive nature of notifications.
atemerev大约 9 年前
Well I don&#x27;t read my Slack feed much, except when directly mentioned. If somebody needs everybody&#x27;s attention, there is @everyone tag (not to be used lightly, and Slack warns about that).<p>Otherwise, chats are there to be ignored and consumed when there is some free time. Slack (as the name implies) is not a high-priority business communication tool.
neumann大约 9 年前
we use the group chat the same way as texts. There is an understanding that there is no requirement to respond instantly (or at all!). It is an announcement platform with implicit understanding it is not work related. You want to discuss something work related, you use email.
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irusri大约 9 年前
It’s about a method of communication. Let&#x27;s take the positive suggestions.
callmeed大约 9 年前
As a side note, interesting that this is published on&#x2F;by Medium but on a custom domain. I also heard Bill Simmons mention using Medium for a new site (on his podcast).<p>Curious to see where they&#x27;re headed with this.
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Kinnard大约 9 年前
The pomodoro technique solves this problem.
anon987大约 9 年前
HBR&#x27;s Winter 2016 article on Collaboration Overload might interest some people: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hbr.org&#x2F;2016&#x2F;01&#x2F;collaborative-overload" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hbr.org&#x2F;2016&#x2F;01&#x2F;collaborative-overload</a>
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jpittis大约 9 年前
I wish there was a way to &quot;subtly&quot; @ someone where the person would not be pinged until they turned off their &quot;I&#x27;m working&quot; status. You could still normally @ someone to get their immediate attention no matter what.
beachstartup大约 9 年前
what i want to know is why in the world both hipchat and slack don&#x27;t allow you to open multiple rooms&#x2F;channels at once in the native client.<p>i&#x27;m clicking at least 1000 times per day to change channels. that&#x27;s not an exaggeration.<p>surely i can&#x27;t be the only one with this problem. or am i just missing something super obvious here?<p>having said that, my current position&#x2F;job&#x2F;company is the last one i will ever work where things have to get done &quot;now&quot; constantly. i&#x27;m done with this method of working after i fulfuill my current obligations.
draw_down大约 9 年前
The only survival tactic is to figure out the absolute minimum of group-chat engagement you can get away with in your org without it being a problem. Leave all the rooms and groups that are not explicitly about work. If a room is bold because it has unread messages, that doesn&#x27;t mean you need to read them right now.
SandersAK大约 9 年前
No.<p>Just like every other communication tool, it&#x27;s not the tool it&#x27;s how you use it.
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