Cheap Solar Power

&quot;Admits&quot; seems a bit harsh, like he was doing his best to hide something from the world.<p>By all accounts, it looks like he had written out a reasonable explanation as to why he predicted solar would not become cost effective. At the end of the day, if something doesn&#x27;t make financial sense, it won&#x27;t last long without subsidies from the government.<p>The assumptions behind his predictions changed and therefore so did the conclusion. Seems pretty reasonable.<p>Like he says, solar power&#x27;s intermittency is still an issue in non-sunny places, but in areas with lots of sunlight, the landscape of power generation is changing for the better.

Keith is one of the authors of the Ecomodernist Manifesto (2015). In the Manifesto they say:<p>The scale of land use and other environmental impacts necessary to power the world on biofuels or many other renewables are such that we doubt they provide a sound pathway to a zero-carbon low-footprint future.<p>High-efficiency solar cells produced from earth-abundant materials are an exception and have the potential to provide many tens of terawatts on a few percent of the Earth’s surface. Present-day solar technologies will require substantial innovation to meet this standard and the development of cheap energy storage technologies that are capable of dealing with highly variable energy generation at large scales.<p>Nuclear fission today represents the only present-day zero-carbon technology with the demonstrated ability to meet most, if not all, of the energy demands of a modern economy. However, a variety of social, economic, and institutional challenges make deployment of present-day nuclear technologies at scales necessary to achieve significant climate mitigation unlikely. A new generation of nuclear technologies that are safer and cheaper will likely be necessary for nuclear energy to meet its full potential as a critical climate mitigation technology.

I really have to take exception with a statement in the opening here:<p>&gt; rooftop solar seem systems which are (arguably) little more than green bling for the wealthy<p>My rooftop solar system (installed in late 2013) is 2.5 years in to what is looking to be a 5.9 year break-even point. After 6 years I will be earning $4-5k&#x2F;year from it. Even if I had financed this (not a solar lease, those are usually structured so the leasing company gets all the benefits) at a high interest rate, it would turn out to be one of my best investments on a $&#x2F;return basis.<p>The fact that basically don&#x27;t have a monthly power bill (which is substantial in hot parts of PG&amp;E land) is my #1 benefit here, as reducing my monthly budget by that amount makes the rest of my life that much nicer. The fact that I have reduced my &#x27;carbon footprint&#x27; is barely on my radar compared to the financial benefits here....<p>I did find it crazy that the installer&#x2F;designer wanted to know if I wanted more visible colors, or a portion of the panels facing the from top the house so they were more noticeable. I suppose some people just have to green-signal...

Could this be a solution in the EU&#x27;s problem of bringing jobs and wealth to North Africa? Thereby encouraging immigrants to stay in their homeland?<p>The Sahara has some of the Sunniest sky&#x27;s in the world. Maybe its time to spend a few hundred billion and build those solar plants in North Africa.

&quot;It does not mean rooftop solar in New England makes sense&quot;<p>Someone forgot to tell my neighbors - in New England. Rooftop solar everywhere.

So year after year it is becoming evident that solar is the future and yet very little seems to happen elsewhere to accommodate this. Solar cells produce DC. Batteries which can store the solar power uses DC. Our iPhones, laptops, flat screens, electric cars use DC. Yet the connection between this DC power production and DC power consumption happens with an AC line wasting power.<p>It is also a dumb line. Solar power production varies considerably and a lot of power consumption is flexible but we don&#x27;t have any intelligence built into the power distribution network to be able to tell devices when to use power and when not to.<p>Imagine if smart cables went into our laptops so they could charge when power was abundant&#x2F;cheap and use battery when it wasn&#x27;t. Electric cars could automatically start charging when power was cheap and stop when it got expensive. Washing machines could have timer function which would start them as soon as power prices were low.

When will this &quot;duck pricing&quot; actually trickle down to consumers? I&#x27;m on a PG&amp;E rate plan that charges me an incredible $0.75&#x2F;kWh during the afternoons of selected days. According to the figures in the CAISO paper, these are the hours of least net demand.

Given that Solar power is the fundamental source of energy leading to petroleum based energy (starting with photosynthesis), it&#x27;s surprising that we still rely on petroleum to the degree we do today. In 100 years this would perhaps be something people would find shocking (like how we are shocked today at how mainstream slavery used to be 150 odd years ago).<p>Solar Energy is unlimited, cheap and clean. My guess would be that energy will eventually end up being near free.

Submitters: Please don&#x27;t editorialize titles when submitting stories. The HN guidelines ask you to use the original title unless it is misleading or linkbait.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html</a><p>(Submitted title was &quot;Harvard Physicist, Long-Time Solar Skeptic Admits Solar Power Now Makes Sense&quot;.)

I wish there was more analysis around energy storage (mainly because that&#x27;s what my startup does). I think it&#x27;s often overlooked in the press when talking about the future of solar. We&#x27;re working to flatten the duck curve that solar created.

Is solar using rare metals that we will run out of soon? So will in the end solar fail anyway?

A bit off topic....<p>Currently Hydro power makes up a small (6%) but significant portion of the energy mix in the US.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eia.gov&#x2F;tools&#x2F;faqs&#x2F;faq.cfm?id=427&amp;t=3" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eia.gov&#x2F;tools&#x2F;faqs&#x2F;faq.cfm?id=427&amp;t=3</a><p>When you look at just the clean energy sources in the US this percentage is greater obviously. Also, other countries rely more on Hydro than the US (Canada and China come to mind).<p>Has there been modeling done on what global warming will do to those Hydro power sources? For example, I can imagine drought is not good for reliable Hydro power. Has declining Hydro power been accounted for in possible future clean energy mixes?

That&#x27;s fascinating. I especially like where he&#x27;s going on the cost of synthetic gasoline. I&#x27;m a little iffy on it (what&#x27;s the source for CO2 by the ton? Atmosphere?), but if sufficiently cheap solar electricity can generate gasoline straight from the air at a price that rivals fossil fuel, it both solves the storage problem (gasoline is wonderful high density storage), and makes banning fossil fuel via regulation an achievable goal.

Imagine an earth 1000 years from now where countries on one side of the planet help out the other side via solar power through superconducting power cables that have little power loss over 10,000 miles.<p>Since each side gets sunlight somewhere, no batteries needed. Of course 1000 years from now they could solve the battery problem too where each residence has its own low cost, safe storage.<p>Or 1000 years from now terrorists dirty-bomb everyone. Sigh.

In the meanwhile, a few other sources argue that the overall ERORI (energy invested vs. energy produced) is well below a somehow &#x27;sustainable&#x27; level. The impression I&#x27;m getting is that the day oil&#x2F;gas production starts to fall due to geological limits, so will the production of photovoltaic &amp; windmills.<p>Please see: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;collapseofindustrialcivilization.files.wordpress.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;05&#x2F;ferroni-y-hopkirk-2016-energy-return-on-energy-invested-eroei-for-photo.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;collapseofindustrialcivilization.files.wordpress.com...</a><p>And: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;science-and-energy.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2016&#x2F;03&#x2F;20160307-Des-Houches-Case-Study-for-Solar-PV.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;science-and-energy.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2016&#x2F;03&#x2F;201...</a><p>And: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=mqhC6uI8TUY" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=mqhC6uI8TUY</a> (for french speakers out there)<p>Please do convince me that we can run the current industrial civilization, at current rates of energy usage, with only solar &amp; wind, on a long enough run, without oil.

Wind and geothermal is good options as well. The biggest problem is storage.

So if this has the potential to change the future energy economy, what are some good investments to make now? Should I be looking at SolarCity, who sell the panels, or the energy companies like Sempra, PG&amp;E, Edison? Something else?

If solar is such a good investment, why aren&#x27;t power companies creating solar fields with a sense of urgency? Sure, there are a token few, but this is mainly for PR reasons or funded by grants ETC.<p>When businesses (wholesalers and consumers) start going to solar on a grand scale, Solar will have finally arrived as a cost effective alternative. Wake me when this happens.

I&#x27;ll start paying attention when a solar company is formed and becomes profitable without any reliance on subsidies.<p>I&#x27;m not holding my breath.