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Ask HN: Why does a pizza app know my location and 911 doesn't?

45 点作者 ponderatul大约 9 年前
I know I don&#x27;t have all the facts. But apparently the system 911 is using to find your location, depending on where you live can have a 10% to 95% chance of finding your exact location; and by 2021 they still won&#x27;t be able to find 1 out of 5 people.<p>Can someone tell me, if we&#x27;re talking about bold people tackling the world&#x27;s biggest problems, is there anyone working on this? It seems to me like an obvious, ripe place for disruption.<p>Here&#x27;s a source of the problem explained in more detail: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=A-XlyB_QQYs

14 条评论

Someone1234大约 9 年前
I understand the technical limitations.<p>But here&#x27;s what I don&#x27;t understand at all...<p>Has anyone ever been sailing? On yachts we have radios, but these radios are designed assuming the person operating it might be completely ignorant.<p>So we have this literal red button, you lift a flap, hold down the button and the radio sends an SOS with complete GPS coordinates and boat name on Channel 16. Then it leaves it on channel 16 so you can describe the emergency.<p>So back to smartphones, on smartphones we have dialer apps, these apps know when you dial 911. Why in holy heck don&#x27;t they have a big red button on-screen which when pushed sends your current GPS coordinates USING VOICE over the open line?<p>Here&#x27;s what we need to do that:<p>- Dialer app. CHECK.<p>- GPS. CHECK.<p>- Some kind of UI. CHECK.<p>- Text to voice system. CHECK.<p>We have all of the components to roll out a system TODAY which tells 911 via voice where you are calling from. It would almost be free, but we haven&#x27;t, and nobody is suggesting it.<p>Everyone is talking about these crazy complicated standards that will, best case, be available in 2021 and cost ungodly amounts. I am talking about using voice which the operator themselves can type in.<p>Am I mad here? Why isn&#x27;t this a thing? Why doesn&#x27;t the dialer even DISPLAY GPS coordinates when you dial 911?<p>Seriously I bet if someone made this a big deal we could get Apple and Google to sign on almost immediately and this would be available within a year. All smartphones already have all of the prerequisites to do this!
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johnhess大约 9 年前
You&#x27;d be really surprised how well the humans in a 911 center cope with antiquated technology. Visiting the center in Cambridge, Mass, I watched a dispatcher -- calm enough to almost seem disinterested -- do everything perfectly by being the &quot;human layer&quot; on top of the old system.<p>She entered scattershot information from a frantic caller, and using a combination of keyboard shortcuts, foot pedals (yes, foot pedals), and stand-up-and-hand-signal-to-a-colleague-while-keying-a-mic, dispatched an ambulance within seconds. Way faster than the caller would ever realize.<p>You&#x27;re not just replacing software&#x2F;hardware, you&#x27;ve also got to make allowances for the humans in the system. Little things make huge differences in those situations, so throwing the old system out is painful. Evolving the current one (as davismwfl pointed out) is challenging for its own reasons.<p>Doesn&#x27;t mean it isn&#x27;t important. Just hard to do.
davismwfl大约 9 年前
So having done a lot of work in the 911 systems for years, I have some first hand experience here.<p>First, most pizza apps are just that, an app. That app has access to your phones location data through GPS and some even use WiFi location services. Hence it can send a nearly exact position to where you are standing.<p>Contrast that to the standard phone network and systems ANI&#x2F;ALI solution, which still does not (completely) support GPS coordinates at this point. In addition, while there were phases (phase I and phase II) of cell phone location compliance put into place by the federal government, most networks and phone companies lagged far behind in implementation of those standards. On top of that, city and county 911 dispatch centers (PSAP and secondary centers) also have to upgrade their phone and CAD integrations to support better location services.<p>As for why it isn&#x27;t being disrupted. Simple, looooooooong sales cycles for an extremely limited market that is vigorously defended by the incumbents. Seriously, it isn&#x27;t rare for a 2-3 year sales cycle for a lot of 911 components and systems. 18 months is about the normal when it involves critical systems with 12 months being probably the fastest you see anything change. Not to mention, the partners you need involved to make a solution work and be palatable to the 911 centers are the exact same companies who want to keep you out of their market, so it isn&#x27;t easy. Not impossible, just not very probable without seriously deep pockets to support what would likely be a 3-5 year development to first sale. It makes selling to enterprises look like a fast process and cake walk.
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db48x大约 9 年前
Because 911 was designed for ordinary landline telephones, before GPS existed, before computers existed. It&#x27;s just a telephone call, not an app running on your phone.<p>Granted, it could rely on the software running on your phone to add information for the dispatcher, but not everyone has one, and not everyone who does has the same kind. And that&#x27;s a good thing!<p>So it takes standardization, and government regulation. Standardization can work pretty well when there&#x27;s a nice tight feedback loop with customers who are interested in the results (web browsers, for instance). How many telephone customers would switch phones based on the details of how well the phone supports 911-related features? It&#x27;s not like we can test them without actually calling 911.<p>Government regulation can also work, provided you&#x27;re willing to pay the costs: time and money. Lots of time, and lots of money. In fact, it costs so much for the government to regulate things like this that we end up in this exact situation. Phones have completely changed since the last 911 regulations were updated, requiring telcos to provide location information to 911 when the caller is using a mobile phone. It took years after that regulation was introduced before the telcos were compliant, and before all the local dispatch operations could use the information.<p>The same would happen today if new regulations were introduced requiring the phone itself to send this information; it would take years for anything to happen. (Though I bet Google and Apple could move faster than the telcos, they&#x27;ve certainly proved to be capable of that.)<p>And that&#x27;s all ignoring the inaccuracy of GPS when inside of buildings, the time it takes for the phone to determine the location, etc.<p>Still, in spite of all of that, now is probably a decent time to start making those changes. It&#x27;s been long enough since the last updates to the regulations, and new phones are capable enough now, that you&#x27;d have a decent chance of getting it done eventually.
Jeremy1026大约 9 年前
Because pizza apps use the GPS chip in your phone to get the Lat&#x2F;Long of your location, and sends it via HTTP(S) to the pizza shop. Currently, cell phones&#x2F;cell networks aren&#x27;t able to access the GPS chip on your device and send that data to the receiving party.
underyx大约 9 年前
Maybe a possible solution (and startup idea) would be to have an app for initiating emergency calls, which puts the user into a conference call with an assistant operator at the app&#x27;s developer company and a 911 dispatcher.<p>- If the user doesn&#x27;t know the location, and they have given the app permission to read GPS data the assistant operator could check the phone&#x27;s location data and chime in with the correct address in the conversation.<p>- If the user is unable to speak, they could send text messages to the assistant operator, who would relay them to the 911 dispatcher.<p>- If the user is unable to do anything more than pressing a button, and if they&#x27;ve given the app permission for this, the assistant operator could check the messages or other data on the user&#x27;s phone to try and find out what the issue is (e.g. domestic violence.)<p>- The user could initiate a video call with the assistant operator who could theoretically be able to more accurately describe certain issues (assuming they are better trained medically) than the user themselves could.
crivabene大约 9 年前
I live in Milan, Italy. A few months ago I had to call 112 (our 911 equivalent) after witnessing a bad car accident while looking outside of the window. The dispatcher on the other side of the phone gave me my location (which was 100% correct, both street name and number) and asked me to confirm. I suppose this was possible thanks to E112 [0], but I am not 100% sure.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;112_(emergency_telephone_number)#E112" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;112_(emergency_telephone_num...</a>
classicteddy将近 9 年前
Actually, in Finland the local 911 equivalent (112 Suomi) knows your location: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;play.google.com&#x2F;store&#x2F;apps&#x2F;details?id=fi.digia.suomi112&amp;hl=en" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;play.google.com&#x2F;store&#x2F;apps&#x2F;details?id=fi.digia.suomi...</a><p>&quot;The 112 Suomi application enables the automatic delivery of the caller&#x27;s location information to the emergency service dispatcher (in Finland). Continued use of GPS running in the background can dramatically decrease battery life.<p>By using this application you agree to the following terms and conditions: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.digia.com&#x2F;PageFiles&#x2F;112" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.digia.com&#x2F;PageFiles&#x2F;112</a> 20Suomi&#x2F;112-Suomi-app-user&#x27;s-licence-agreement.pdf Registry extract according to the Personal Information Act: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.digia.com&#x2F;PageFiles&#x2F;112" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.digia.com&#x2F;PageFiles&#x2F;112</a> Suomi&#x2F;112-Suomi-app-registry-extract.pdf&quot;
Broken_Hippo大约 9 年前
It isn&#x27;t just 911 in the states :: It is similar here in Norway and gives me a bit of worry... if I ever need emergency services, that is. I guess they can look it up, but it takes longer.<p>Here there is an app that will send that information to 911, without worrying about giving special permissions at the time of the call. I&#x27;m not sure why that isn&#x27;t standard on cell phones everywhere, especially since phones generally come pre-loaded with apps. I know that landlines in the states send the information to 911, so I would think some people much smarter than I would be able to make an interface to go between the two. I suppose that would take some time, given how well the government seems to work together to get important things done these days.
ubertaco将近 9 年前
I don&#x27;t know many details about the problem, but I might suspect there&#x27;s also a &quot;perfect is the enemy of good&quot; issue here; there are serious consequences for getting a 911 call <i>precisely</i> wrong, so it&#x27;s better to be <i>approximately</i> correct and let humans do the work of narrowing-down. With a pizza delivery, if they drive up to 1234 Somewhere Lane and knock on the door asking for 1236 Somewhere Lane, someone&#x27;s going to point out the problem (and if not, the cost is relatively low), so it&#x27;s okay to be <i>precisely</i> incorrect.
YesThatTom2大约 9 年前
Yet another example of capitalism run amuck letting people die in the name of profits.<p>The phone companies COULD upgrade to newer technology right now, but that would cost money.<p>Or...<p>They could wait until it is a crisis and then DEMAND that municipal governments pay for the upgrade.<p>Which would you do?
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aaron695大约 9 年前
Sounds like a privacy nightmare. Phone can override all settings and send my location.<p>Not to say you cant make money off it.
Focalise将近 9 年前
Government vs private enterprise.
Mz大约 9 年前
Because human society values selling pizza more than saving lives. If we really cared, we would have a 911 app as well and it would know exactly where you are if you use it to dial 911. But, nope, we don&#x27;t actually care that much.<p>(This is not snark, in case you are wondering.)
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