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Racial Fault Lines in Silicon Valley

226 点作者 bdr将近 9 年前

21 条评论

sverige将近 9 年前
I have a caveat to add to the author&#x27;s assertion that discussing race becomes easier with practice. That&#x27;s not always true in the short run, but I agree that it is in the long run, assuming good faith on both sides.<p>What I&#x27;ve found is that it depends on so many variables between the people wanting to have the discussion that it&#x27;s entirely unpredictable how it will turn out - and often unpredictable even if it&#x27;s the same two parties with discussions separated by time.<p>I&#x27;m a white man married to a black woman. We&#x27;ve known each other over 35 years. We&#x27;ve had discussions on many aspects of the racial divide over the years, of course. I think that I understand her point of view as a black woman much better now than I did in the &#x27;80s, or &#x27;90s, or &#x27;00s, though even today she may say that I just don&#x27;t get it. (And I think she understands where I&#x27;m coming from better, too.)<p>But the effort has been worth it. It&#x27;s just very, very difficult sometimes to have such discussions.<p>As far as the substance of his experience with the interviewer, sadly, I completely believe it and am not even surprised. The author handled himself with dignity at every step. It had to take a lot of courage to tell it straight when the session on interviewing brought it all back up years later. So what everyone went silent? Their discomfort isn&#x27;t comparable to what I suspect his was.<p>Telling the truth is always worth it, especially when it&#x27;s hard. Hopefully sharing his negative experience helped at least one person in that session to reconsider what they probably considered to be long-settled (and probably vague) opinions about their own rightness in this regard.<p>tl;dr: It&#x27;s easy to learn to avoid saying what you really feel and think when you&#x27;re in a work environment and you know there could be repercussions. It&#x27;s hard to challenge yourself and others to go beneath the surface, but the rewards are great.
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buckbova将近 9 年前
&gt; “Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school?” ... “Why is it no longer okay to say n<i></i><i></i>r?&quot;<p>WTF. Offensive or not these questions are plain dumb. He must have been trying to illicit a reaction from Makinde.<p>Reminds me of the SNL skit where Richard Pryor is being interviewed by Chevy Chase doing word associations.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vimeo.com&#x2F;117983862" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vimeo.com&#x2F;117983862</a>
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vowelless将近 9 年前
That was a really ridiculous question to ask. I&#x27;m brown and if someone asked me about middle eastern politics during an interview or worse made some low quality comment, I would promotly get up and leave. I don&#x27;t have the patience for that in a professional setting.<p>On a separate note<p>&gt; &#x2F;dev&#x2F;color is a community of black software engineers who help one another reach career goals. To learn more, check out our website and follow our blog &amp; twitter account.<p>Then why not call it &#x2F;dev&#x2F;black? I find it confusing. Does &quot;color&quot; imply black? I have been called a &quot;person of color&quot; before, due to my brown skin and middle eastern features.
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AndrewKemendo将近 9 年前
<i>Shockingly, his first question had nothing to do with technology. “Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school?” he asked. I was taken aback but tried to explain the social dynamics that might be at play. He followed with, “Why is it no longer okay to say n</i><i></i><i>r?”</i><p>That&#x27;s just insane. What on earth would make someone think those questions are anything relevant to work?<p>Maybe it&#x27;s because I&#x27;m a &quot;person of color&quot; - even though I&#x27;m not &quot;black&quot; - but race is the last thing on my mind when I&#x27;m interviewing candidates or trying to push a new release to production. I&#x27;ve been patted down by store managers because they thought I was suspicious. I&#x27;ve been turned away from bars&#x2F;clubs because I would &quot;cause trouble.&quot; None of these things relates to how I comment on code, implement a design, build some architecture etc...<p><i>Conversations like this are difficult to have in the workplace, but ultimately necessary in creating an inclusive environment.</i><p>Sorry I disagree here. I don&#x27;t think they are necessary. It&#x27;s certainly helpful to relate to and have a great relationship with your fellow co-workers, but there are literally hundreds of other aspects of someone&#x27;s life to get into other than ethnicity, sexuality or religion - the hottest button issues around.<p>That is taking into consideration that race is such a big part of daily life for black and &quot;dark&quot; people. If nothing else work should be a place where race questions aren&#x27;t even in the air.
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sremani将近 9 年前
&gt;&gt;&gt;Ask If It’s Okay. You might have follow-up questions or a thought to add. Don’t assume I’m ready to, or want to, have a deep conversation about the issue right then and there. If I’m not ready, be okay with that. What seems like a simple question for you, might have a deep, complicated response in my mind &lt;&lt;&lt;<p>This is exact reason people do not want to go through, talking about race for many it is like walking on egg shells. Who wants to really do it? Not only people do not want to feel rejected, but also not be dragged into a drama or creating more drama.
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educar将近 9 年前
(I am not black or american) I am going to come across as clueless here but why is that &#x27;nr&#x27; is offsensive for black people.. and yet every movie with black people has them screaming this word all the time. And the rap music is filled with them. If they find it offsensive, why do they keep using it.<p>I have asked this to my local population here but we don&#x27;t have the necessary insight into this phenomenon. Is there any parallels to this where it&#x27;s ok to call each other something but others cannot call you that (so it can help me understand better)? Thanks!
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abvdasker将近 9 年前
For a few minutes after I was done reading Mr. Adeagbo&#x27;s piece I wondered if maybe the story of his interview was made up or exaggerated. It&#x27;s hard to believe someone would do something that mean-spirited (or perhaps just deeply insensitive). I thought to myself that, surely, people in tech don&#x27;t actually say or do these kinds of things.<p>But I kept reading comments and the ones at the bottom put my doubts to rest.
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tux1968将近 9 年前
Trying to imagine a case where this CEO is just inappropriate rather than mean spirited. The only idea that comes to mind is that the CEO was trying to guard against racial division. He wanted to avoid a situation where race mattered at all in his company, and was probing to see if this person was easily triggered along those lines. While twisted, it makes some sense since a job offer was actually forthcoming.
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petegrif将近 9 年前
Feels to me like you handled it extremely well on both occasions. Thanks (really) for sharing.
sbilstein将近 9 年前
I wish it would be safe for those to out their offenders...I really wonder which CEO would think to ask such a ridiculous and offensive question.
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JustSomeNobody将近 9 年前
Anyone giving interviews should completely understand that there are questions that you&#x27;re not allowed to ask.<p>Technology is now hip and cool so we break the rules is no excuse for being ignorant of how to treat another human being.
lizzard将近 9 年前
It&#x27;s a hard decision to make, whether to tell people your perspective from a marginalized position. They feel bad and don&#x27;t know what to do with that knowledge, or how to integrate it with their own different experiences. I love the bullet points of advice Makinde gives here for people hearing unfamiliar experiences from their coworkers or friends, to figure out how they can be okay with that discomfort.
st3v3r将近 9 年前
&quot;When the recruiter called as congratulated me on getting an offer, I immediately declined, citing “severe cultural differences.”&quot;<p>It would have been great to see the recruiter&#x27;s reaction if they had straight up said, &quot;It&#x27;s because your boss asked me why he can&#x27;t say nigger.&quot; Although I can understand exactly why he didn&#x27;t say that.
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mathattack将近 9 年前
Courageous post!
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Frozenlock将近 9 年前
I see a myriad of threads about interviews on HN. They all say that you can&#x27;t really code in an interview. You don&#x27;t have your favorite tools nor any real projet or familiarity with a codebase. These threads will say that the interview should, at most, be there to help you see if there&#x27;s a culture fit.<p>Now you have an interview where the guy asked questions that aren&#x27;t related to programming and everyone is up in arms. Maybe it&#x27;s because he did his homework? Maybe he already checked M. Adeagbo work and decided he wanted him in the company?<p>So now I suppose the interview isn&#x27;t supposed to be used to check if someone is a good programmer... but it also shouldn&#x27;t approach any subject that is emotional, because by gosh you wouldn&#x27;t want to know how someone will react on a sensitive subject.<p>You guys must have the weirdest social interactions ever. Within an hour of meeting someone I usually &quot;size&quot; them by throwing curved ball designed to see what makes them ticks. That is exactly what I would expect in a well designed interview, especially if you are looking for culture fit.<p>Frankly, I find that these questions are well designed. Look at how I immediately answered them:<p>&gt;“Why do all the Black kids sit at the same table at school?”<p>&quot;Same reason Asians or Whites will do the same thing under the same conditions.&quot;<p>What can we deduce? Not much, except that I&#x27;m aware of basic biology&#x2F;human behavior. Better luck in the next question...<p>&gt;“Why is it no longer okay to say n<i></i><i></i>r?”<p>&quot;It is okay, but you need to be of the correct race... and apparently that&#x27;s not racist. (with a hint of sarcasm)&quot;<p>Bingo! Now you known that when I talk of sexism and racism, I use the dictionary definition, NOT the new &quot;minorities can&#x27;t be sexist&#x2F;racist&quot; version.<p>And just like that, you know if I&#x27;m a good fit. (If it&#x27;s in SF, probably not...)<p>&gt;&quot;&#x2F;dev&#x2F;color is a community of black software engineers who help one another reach career goals.&quot;<p>This is literally a racist club. ---&gt; A group who discriminates based on race. Now, I have nothing against that... but you can&#x27;t say a word if white clubs are created.
ps4fanboy将近 9 年前
I see people lying all the time in life, about everything, then I read stories like this and they seem cringe and unreal with no reason to believe they are true. But there is this pressure to believe them because its about sexism or racism and we should take this story as true because skepticism is bad, I find it really difficult to resolve these feelings of distrust, human beings are just overall untrust worthy.<p>EDIT: I guess I broke the #ListenAndBelieve rule.
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fiatmoney将近 9 年前
At this point it is appropriate to exercise skepticism towards claims of random acts of racial sadism that just happen to comport with popular &quot;social justice&quot; narratives.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fakehatecrimes.org&#x2F;reports" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fakehatecrimes.org&#x2F;reports</a>
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Reese1379将近 9 年前
Sounds to me like a good test of character. It would be interesting if this self described &#x27;black software engineer&#x27; would tell us who the founder&#x2F;CEO was and the name of the company. Why <i>do</i> all the Black kids sit at the same table at school? Why do all the Asian kids sit at the front of the class? Why is it ok for rap singers to say nigger but not anyone else? I really want to know.<p>See another African American dude being racially profiled: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=1uTP1fdFu0c" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=1uTP1fdFu0c</a>
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pessimizer将近 9 年前
Looks like somebody is finally trying to replace the BDPA, thank god.
known将近 9 年前
The scientific way to train white people to stop being racist <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;qz.com&#x2F;656159&#x2F;the-scientific-way-to-train-white-people-to-stop-being-racist&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;qz.com&#x2F;656159&#x2F;the-scientific-way-to-train-white-peopl...</a>
gizi将近 9 年前
I am non-American mixed-race. I personally consider racism to be -- in and of itself -- a non-issue. It does not kill you, and everything that does not kill you, ultimately makes you stronger.<p>I consider racism to be irrelevant because it mostly is. I can barely imagine a new situation in which someone would be able to stage a racist attack. I am probably entirely hedged against those already.<p>The real problem is always the abuse of government power: &quot;I’ve been interrogated at gunpoint by police because I fit the description&quot;.<p>So, yes, if they choose the time and the place, they can indeed attack you, if they so desire. However, it perfectly well works the other around as well. If you chose the time and the place, it would work too. The only solution that truly works against the problem of lack of respect, is to inflict respect-instilling reprisals.<p>Therefore, the real problem, are your false beliefs in their fake legitimacy. Hence, in reality, state racism is a problem of religion.<p>Racism against Muslims pretty much fails, because they are increasingly making that very practice insanely dangerous. The police are very aware of that. They know that there will routinely be reprisals. This is the enormous attraction of Islam. It pretty much solves all the problems of abuse of power, including state racism.