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We Hired a Blind Coder

218 点作者 su_yuen将近 9 年前

25 条评论

SwellJoe将近 9 年前
One of my friends is a blind coder (and he sometimes comments here on HN), and he&#x27;s had a very hard time getting regular work as a coder, even for things that seem obvious (like testing and fixing apps and sites for accessibility). He&#x27;s bright and built his own screen reader for Android, among other things. But, I think that&#x27;s a common experience for folks with disabilities; they begin to feel like they have to apologize for their disability, even in cases where it does not inhibit them from doing the work.<p>Even worse, there begins to be a notion that hiring someone with a disability is a charitable act, rather than just making a hiring decision based on their competence for the task. It seems like that would be kinda soul-crushing to always wonder if you were chosen for reasons other than your abilities.<p>I&#x27;ve seen so many interesting&#x2F;disappointing behaviors from people when it comes to people with disabilities. Once I was helping with an event that was organized and led by a woman with cerebral palsy and in a wheelchair. Media showed up to cover the event...and kept trying to talk to me about it (the able-bodied white guy who was mostly there to handle technical stuff and had very little interesting to say about what the event was about), even when the organizer was right next to me and clearly bossing people, including me, around. She also has had difficulty finding regular work in the past, despite being really impressive in a lot of areas.<p>I&#x27;m kinda just ranting here, as I don&#x27;t have good solutions, but I do think it&#x27;d be cool for folks to stop assuming that just because someone can&#x27;t work the way most folks work they can&#x27;t do the same kind of work. There have been blind developers (that I&#x27;ve been aware of) for about as long as I&#x27;ve been using computers (and that&#x27;s a long time). We should stop being shocked by it; though it&#x27;s cool and impressive, it tends to lead to thinking they might not be able to do the job as well, just because they&#x27;re doing it in such a different way.
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busterarm将近 9 年前
We contract a blind accessibility consultant to help us evaluate all of our websites (and we have a lot...) and educate us on best practices for making our sites easier to navigate.<p>One of the best choices that we ever made. We spend a lot of time on getting it right in our sites and have spent many hours in NVDA &amp; VoiceOver with our eyes closed.<p>It&#x27;s unfortunate how poor the experience still is on most websites and I wish our industry would spend a little more time trying to get this right. If you aren&#x27;t using Semantic markup and ARIA, please start now.<p>You can&#x27;t imagine how much worse the user experience is on mobile vs a computer.
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filleokus将近 9 年前
Nice story! One thing I have been thinking about, for completely blind (English isn&#x27;t my native language, so sorry for not using the correct&#x2F;polite terminology) users, (that have 0% vision on both eyes) it would be possible to use a laptop without a screen, I guess.<p>Essentially simulating the screen for the screen reader to work with, but not rendering the output anywhere (or even having the screen hardware to render it on). Just imagine how mind boggling it would be to see someone working at a coffeshop with just headphones on and the bottom part of a laptop, or at a desk with no screen on it!<p>I get that it probably don&#x27;t make sense to manufacture a product like this, but still, would be really cool I think! :)
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ethomson将近 9 年前
When I was in high school, I had a part time job&#x2F;internship doing QA and writing some software. I was recruited there by my friend, who was blind, a programmer, and also in high school.<p>He was a great programmer, and very adept at using his screen reader. As far as I know, it only ever gave him one serious complication: since he was a minor, it was set to safe-for-work mode, and it read his coworker&#x27;s name, a Mr Livshits, as Livsugars.
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insteadof将近 9 年前
Speaking of, The Changelog #206 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;changelog.com&#x2F;206&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;changelog.com&#x2F;206&#x2F;</a> just put out one with a blind programmer as well, &quot;This week on the show we talk with Parham Doustdar, a blind programmer. We talked about the advantages of being a blind programmer, the tools he uses, quitting school, carving your own path, and more.&quot;
Brajeshwar将近 9 年前
Recently, I tele-interviewed a developer and got him as a consultant, judged based on his skills and his work. I didn&#x27;t realize he was blind until it came to light that the blind developer in the team was the one I interviewed! Good Developers are good, no matter what.<p>Prior to that, I also got 2 disabled interns - they are hard of hearing and verbal speaking. I got them working for 6 months, after which they got full-time jobs elsewhere. They were usually present in the 30+ team workshops and meet-ups that I do. I had to slow down, express more expressively with hands, etc. and things went pretty good. They did always comes back to me at the end, picking on few missing parts that I need to elaborate.<p>I also had a selfish motive - I wanted to learn sign language. I was able to understand them better but I think I need professional training to be proficient doing the sign language myself.<p>btw, this is all in India, a place where accessibility, disability-enabled stuffs are an after-thought, sometimes totally ignored.
rusabd将近 9 年前
I was hired by blind developer once. He didn&#x27;t discriminate me by my sight.
pkrefta将近 9 年前
Great and very inspiring story. Made my Saturday 200% better - seriously :)
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dudul将近 9 年前
Nice post, but I was kind of shocked by this part: &quot;A question going through your head is probably: Did we underpay him?&quot;<p>Seriously? What kind of human beings do you think your readers are? Did anyone here really think about that while reading the story?
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danielmorozoff将近 9 年前
I wonder if any blind coders could comment on how they see programmatic flow in their minds eye? I am curious how this shapes the way you write code as well. As a demonstrative example, i imagine very long &#x2F; complex functional methods would be difficult to worth with as they would require more movement back of the screen reader and may reduce your efficiency.<p>Maybe people who work with blind devs could also chime in.<p>Many blind musicians and artists develop heightened perceptions in their respective art and generate some unique, original works. I wonder if this is true for coders&#x2F; mathematicians?
samfisher83将近 9 年前
How do big companies that love doing white boarding interview blind people. I am guessing due to ADA they have to give them some other test?
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kewball将近 9 年前
I started a new job and the sysops guys works remotely. I had been communicating with him for over a month via email and chat before a colleague told me that sysops guy was blind. He is quite brilliant.
saqibs将近 9 年前
I thought I&#x27;d give my $0.02 worth on some of the questions raised.<p>&gt; I wonder if any blind coders could comment on how they see programmatic flow in their minds eye?<p>It&#x27;s all about the structure. I think of it like reading a novel with a complex plot - you meet some of the characters, learn facts about them, and then you get introduced to new characters, and later in the book you find out how they relate to each other, and much later on, you may find out through some twist of the plot that the relationship isn&#x27;t quite what you thought it was, and you have to recreate your mental model.<p>As a result, I find that sometimes I&#x27;m slower at ramping up on complex codebases (especially if it&#x27;s poorly written with no structure), but once I have my mental model, I&#x27;m potentially faster than someone who has to have things in front of them to refer to. This is purely based on my personal experience.<p>&gt; How do big companies that love doing white boarding interview blind people?<p>I&#x27;ve always turned up with my laptop, and proposed that I use it, plugged into a monitor the interviewer can see. The interviewer reads me out the question, and I take notes. I always do the coding in Notepad, so I don&#x27;t have access to code completion or syntax highlighting.<p>&gt; I think it is totally reasonable that a blind person could code, but how does a blind person learn how to code initially?<p>The same way a sighted person would - since most information in this field is text-based. Read the tutorials, do the exercises. In fields where mathematical notation or diagrams are prevalent (e.g. machine learning), some sighted help or adapted material is probably required.<p>&gt; Why the hell would you hire a blind coder to ship your feature by next week when you can find an equal or better (white&#x2F;Asian male) engineer to do the same thing? By definition, the blind coder is limited compared to non-disabled people. It&#x27;s a purely business decision. No hard feelings, but I&#x27;d rather not have a blind person on my team or organization. Unless it is for PR.<p>I respond to this comment purely because, whether I like it or not, such thinking is not uncommon. Let&#x27;s rephrase the question as &quot;why would you hire a {foo} engineer to ship your feature by next week when you can find an equal or better ({bar}) engineer to do the same thing?&quot;. Put this way, I accept that smaller companies who need someone next week will always choose the {bar} engineer, because they&#x27;re better, not because they&#x27;re {bar}. But here there is an assumption that every single {bar} engineer is better than every single {foo} engineer, which simply can&#x27;t be true. Make sure your biases don&#x27;t prevent you from hiring the awesome {foo} engineer, who out-performs every {bar} engineer. In a larger company, I&#x27;d go further and say that you need to have an inclusive work culture, not only because it&#x27;s the right thing to do, but also because if your customer-base is diverse (which on the internet, it probably is), then a really good way to make awesome products is to have a diverse workforce.
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whitenoice将近 9 年前
Nice post, this reminded me of an article&#x2F;video I had seen recently - Srikanth Bolla - <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;spectrum.mit.edu&#x2F;spring-2011&#x2F;living-his-dream" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;spectrum.mit.edu&#x2F;spring-2011&#x2F;living-his-dream</a><p>- <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dogonews.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;6&#x2F;9&#x2F;visually-impaired-srikanth-bolla-sees-no-challenges-just-opportunities" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dogonews.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;6&#x2F;9&#x2F;visually-impaired-srikanth-...</a>
herwin_haliman将近 9 年前
Hi, I&#x27;m Herwin, the person who is on the article.<p>I just finished read all the comments above, and would like to share my story and my thoughts.<p>But since the comment is too long, I put it on my dropbox, you can found it here :<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dropbox.com&#x2F;s&#x2F;h9dxozsrxz7wuqf&#x2F;mystory.txt?dl=0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dropbox.com&#x2F;s&#x2F;h9dxozsrxz7wuqf&#x2F;mystory.txt?dl=0</a><p>Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks all ;).<p>Warm regards -- Herwin
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fit2rule将近 9 年前
One of the most brilliant coders I&#x27;ve ever worked with was 90% blind. He had a gigantic monitor, and his term setup was such that the gigantic screen showed big chars, 3 at a time. He&#x27;d scroll through code like lightning, reading it 1 or 2 chars at a time, and despite this limitation was one of the best kernel hackers of my professional experience. (We bonded as the only vi users in the dev group..)<p>To this day, I doubt I&#x27;d have the temerity and courage to work in this field as he did, and I have to say that I have immense respect for the disabled who overcome these disabilities and nevertheless remain extremely productive. It says something of a persons resolve that they are willing and able to write and debug kernel code, 1 char at a time .. I really don&#x27;t think I could do it.
mcweaksauce将近 9 年前
I think it is totally reasonable that a blind person could code, but how does a blind person learn how to code initially? Did he become blind later on after learning how to code?
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carlob将近 9 年前
I work remotely as well, but at our company we do a lot of screen sharing meetings. I wonder if someone should build some sort of VNC (or zoom, or adobe connect) that plays well with screen readers and doesn&#x27;t just send a video feed. Or maybe it already exists.<p>I myself have macular degeneration, which while not disabling right now, has started a bit too early in my life. One day I might be almost blind myself and I will definitely need this.
Avalaxy将近 9 年前
Most be a good employer to publicly praise their employees like this! ;) Interesting read, glad he&#x27;s doing well!
spoiledtechie将近 9 年前
Whats the screen reader this coder uses? Is there a best screen reader for us software developers?
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kendallpark将近 9 年前
At a previous company I worked at, we had a blind dude supporting our web apps (i.e. on the phone with customers). I was pretty shocked (and a little ashamed) to learn this because didn&#x27;t have any ARIA features built in.
andrewjl将近 9 年前
Thanks for sharing this. It&#x27;s very inspiring and interesting to read about solutions to the very unique problems visually impaired coders face.<p>Does make me wonder about non-text based input &#x2F; code display methods that can help here.
sleepychu将近 9 年前
&quot;A question going through your head is probably:<p><pre><code> Did we underpay him?&quot; </code></pre> That was not going through my mind, I&#x27;m kind of concerned you thought it would be...
backlava将近 9 年前
I think most programmers don&#x27;t realize how much vision holds them back. I&#x27;ve been coding blindfolded for over a month and I&#x27;m never going back. If you are a touch typist what do you need to see<i>? Not looking at things helps me to focus.<p></i> I do take the blindfold off while checking my work an during <i>some</i> parts of debugging.
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Cuuugi将近 9 年前
I wonder if he saw it coming.