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I renounced my US citizenship

128 点作者 su_yuen将近 9 年前

19 条评论

letitleak将近 9 年前
Charging for renunciation is the most ridiculous part. You are paying for a process that:<p>is expensive only since they want to investigate you as a presumed criminal or tax dodger (the movie Brazil comes to mind)<p>is a result of their non-compliance with international norms<p>is the result of the US declaring you have a status that was never requested<p>As an expat I consider all US citizens to be indentured servants due to this requirement to buy independence from the US and whatever it chooses to enact next. Effectively, these changes are not noticed by the US&#x27; domestics, but those who think they &quot;can flee to Canada&quot; when they have ethical problems with the US are now deluding themselves. &quot;If you don&#x27;t like it, then leave&quot; may have been sarcastic BS, but at least it was a real choice that many people made in the Vietnam era, etc. If you don&#x27;t like us leave us money (which we will use in the ways you probably object to)&quot; is something else.<p>I will find it both funny and sad that when the people who supported the two party system are pissed by someone like Trump implementing fascist policies they will finally realize that their own willingness to destroy our basic civil rights makes it impossible for them to avoid helping a system they find morally repugnent and criminal.
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kilroy123将近 9 年前
As someone living abroad, I agree there is a lot of bull shit now, involving banking.<p>I only have bank accounts in the US because of the complicated laws. That&#x27;s not a big deal.<p>What REALLY pisses me off, is that banks in the US are declining service because you live abroad. For example, holding investment accounts back in the US. If they find out I&#x27;m living abroad they will promptly close my accounts. I can&#x27;t have a retirement accounts because I live abroad!?<p>What do I do? Maintain a mailing address back in the US, in a state that collects no income tax. Use a VPN to login to retirement accounts. Insane.<p>Edit: I don&#x27;t even mind paying taxes over 100k. Why? I can still go home whenever I want. I can go to one of the many embassies around the world and get a new passport. Ask for help, etc. I&#x27;ll still get social security later. (Huge maybe)<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;thunfinancial.com&#x2F;us-brokerage-accounts-american-expats-closed-2015&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;thunfinancial.com&#x2F;us-brokerage-accounts-american-expa...</a> <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.wsj.com&#x2F;expat&#x2F;2015&#x2F;09&#x2F;20&#x2F;american-expats-scramble-to-keep-u-s-investment-accounts&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.wsj.com&#x2F;expat&#x2F;2015&#x2F;09&#x2F;20&#x2F;american-expats-scramb...</a>
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protomyth将近 9 年前
This is one of those things that should be repealed. I&#x27;ve frankly gotten tired of the punishing of normal people by dumb privacy invading laws[1], or frankly, taxing them when they are not in the US. There are easier ways of going after people and companies (looking at you Monster Cable) that play fast an lose with our tax laws. I am all for only taxing income &#x2F; revenue earned in the US.<p>1) we can get rid of all the BS $10,000 stuff in deposits in the US.
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2muchcoffeeman将近 9 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Accidental_American" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Accidental_American</a><p>Yep, looks like that&#x27;s true. Seems like US hospitals need lawyers and accountants on staff to explain the liabilities a new born will have later in life and you guys need to have a law that allows parents to officially reject citizenship on behalf of a new born.
tn13将近 9 年前
Congratulations.<p>I think some small country should negotiate a deal with all other nations and come up with a citizenship program that gives good value for their passport and then allow Americans (or any other highly taxed nationals) to settle there. For example Lala-Land does some background checks and issues passport to its citizens which can then be used to travel almost all the countries in the world. Lala-Land will give passports to anyone who applies if they pay enough money and show some evidence that they arent criminals etc.
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peatmoss将近 9 年前
Having spent 10% of my life as a resident of another country, this hits home. If I leave the U.S. a second time, it will likely be a permanent departure with renunciation of citizenship. I know others who feel the same.
klunger将近 9 年前
This is a duplicate of a submission I made 2 weeks ago.<p>Anyway, as an American abroad, I think about this periodically. Like the author, I never owe anything in taxes, but the stress and expense from making sure paperwork is correctly filed each year is really awful. If I mess something up on my FBARs, non-willfully, I would be fined enough to completely bankrupt me, the fines being way above the value of the accounts I might somehow misreport. How can you misreport an account? Well, you could use the wrong currency exchange rate, or you might not have access to information required on the form so you have o guess, or you could think that accounts with a balance of 0 all year do not need to be reported (turns out they do). Or maybe you think that an account with money for a loan does not need to be reported because it is not really your money (you do). And so on. Every mistake costs you 10k&#x2F;account&#x2F;year. It is true insanity.<p>Also, I currently have no tax deferred way to save for retirement because my employer funded pension account here (it is essentially a 401k, just based in Norway) is treated as a regular investment account by the IRS. So, I have to pay taxes on any gains each year on my pension. Luckily, this has always been below the standard deduction, but in some years, it will (hopefully) not be. I also cannot make any contributions myself to the account or else it turns into a PFIC (which is a Very Bad Thing).<p>That being said, I am hopeful that FATCA will be repealed, or at least revised so that it does not threaten to bankrupt middle class Americans with the ridiculous fee structure and recognizes foreign pension accounts. I do not want to give up my US citizenship, but will be forced to if something does not change in the next few years.
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serge2k将近 9 年前
&gt; To get the same records in the US, law enforcement would have to get a subpoena<p>Don&#x27;t any deposits over a threshold get reported domestically as well? IIRC 10k is the limit.<p>&gt; At the same time, the US has worked out Intergovernmental Agreements (IGA’s) with many countries, including the Netherlands<p>Worked out... bullied. As I recall the threat was to stop allowing business with the US.<p>&gt; By the US definition, they are US citizens as well, and should have been filing US income tax forms every year. Many only discovered this recently and are now under threat of huge fines if they do not get compliant with the US taxation laws. The same goes for children of US citizens, like my son, who are born abroad but qualify as US citizens.<p>Don&#x27;t you have to apply to get citizenship? I thought it was more of you are entitled to citizenship. I can&#x27;t imagine why anyone wouldn&#x27;t tell the US gov&#x27;t to get fucked in this situation, unless you actually are taking advantage of being a citizen.<p>So glad Canada (and nowhere else but what, 1-2 countries?) have this global taxation BS.
jkot将近 9 年前
One can always reapply for citizenship under the same conditions as anyone else. If her parents are Americans and she was born here, she will very likely get citizenship back.
hn_user2将近 9 年前
Interesting. Although I have always just assumed that since I need a social security number to open any kind of account in the US that the IRS already knows how much I have in the bank.<p>&gt;If US citizens living in the US had to report the balance of every account they had in their local bank — all their assets, in other words, not just their income — they would be up in arms, protesting the government’s intrusion in citizens’ private business.
parsnipsumthing将近 9 年前
Millions of Americans every year don&#x27;t pay taxes or file any tax returns. I would recommend that instead.<p>If you are a not particularly wealthy individual and you don&#x27;t owe any back taxes to the IRS, the consequences of not any filing taxes are likely to be nothing.
tim333将近 9 年前
I know the US is set in their ways but adopting residence based taxation like everyone else wouldn&#x27;t cause many problems. You can always have an anti avoidance clause for capital gains to stop billionaire shareholders skipping abroad to sell their shares.
researcher7将近 9 年前
You complain about the US legal system, which based on the constitution protects everyone with due process rights, and like countries like the Netherlands which have no bill of rights? Me and my family spent our life savings, endured the horrors of leaving everything behind to come to the US to enjoy the liberty and rights that are guaranteed to everyone, yet people like you are not happy and want lower standards.<p>Good riddance. If you don&#x27;t want to be a citizen of this great country, it would be better than you.
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youngButEager将近 9 年前
Want to reduce stress and frustration in your life? Add this to your personal philosophy:<p>&quot;If it&#x27;s stupid, get away from it.&quot;<p>- dumb boss? job transfer or new job<p>- dumb family members causing you problems? Avoid them.<p>- dumb taxation? get away from the legal clutches of the taxing authority<p>Everything detrimental in life that can be avoided, <i>should</i> be avoided if possible.<p>There is enough unhappy other stuff that comes up in our lives that if you&#x27;re not at <i></i>least<i></i> bailing on crappy situations, you&#x27;re missing a chance at a happier less stressful life.
umeshunni将近 9 年前
Her biggest complaint is that she has to report her overseas bank accounts. If she had done some basic research, she would have realized that this isn&#x27;t specific to people residing outside the US, but any US national even within the US has to report foreign bank accounts with balances &gt;$10k.<p>The rest of her post reads like whining about having to fill out forms.
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Grue3将近 9 年前
And I would&#x27;ve taken it in a heartbeat. This post seeps with privilege. Oh no, you&#x27;re in a position to choose between two first-world countries. We&#x27;re so sad for you. Not.
tn13将近 9 年前
I could have become a US citizen long back but I have avoided taking that citizenship for the simple reason that I don&#x27;t want to expose myself to American Tax Terrorism.
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bruceb将近 9 年前
1. Having American citizenship allows her to travel easily and often visa free to many countries.<p>2. Allows her to work in America with no visa issues. Access to top companies in the world including most of the ones we see on HN.<p>3. Allows her potential kids to have access same benefits and go to universities cheaper and again easily work in the US even if they didn&#x27;t grow up there.<p>Should renunciation chargers be changed? Probably. Maybe if you don&#x27;t earn very much you could pay less. Are there somethings that could be reformed? Yes. But she is complaining about forms and doesn&#x27;t even pay taxes.
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skywhopper将近 9 年前
It sounds like she didn&#x27;t pay US income tax, she just had to file a tax return, which seems reasonable.<p>The idea that the US government doesn&#x27;t track US citizens bank accounts if they live in the US is laughable. Of course they do. Banks have to report all kinds of details of large transactions and balances. We don&#x27;t have to fill out forms because the government can go directly to the banks to get the information.<p>The way voting works I think is entirely reasonable. How else should it work? Is she suggesting there be senators and representatives just for expats? I would honestly expect the states would not want expats voting in their local elections, so the expats have more rights than I would expect there. For the Presidential election, yeah our voting system is screwed up there, but it is screwed up for everyone.<p>So it sounds like she left to avoid paperwork that felt intrusive. Meh. Welcome to life.
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