Ask HN: Interview tomorrow – How to learn whether an org is “healthy”?

191 点作者 mud_dauber将近 9 年前

Recall the NYT article describing Google's team culture case study. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/magazine/what-google-learned-from-its-quest-to-build-the-perfect-team.html?_r=0).I am being recruited by a manager & two technical leads for a leadership slot. They want to replace the existing manager for vague, but apparently real, "communication" problems - details forthcoming. 3 teams on 3 continents, perhaps 30 people total.I know & trust the two technical leads, but want to have solid due diligence in place before accepting any offer. What questions can I use to learn whether the dev teams play well together?

45 条评论

grandalf将近 9 年前

They are conspiring to replace an existing employee. That says enough. If the organization were "healthy" they would be upfront with the existing manager and allow him/her to gracefully exit.That they won't do this suggests that there is a lot of mistrust going on, or possibly optics with the investors around turnover -- not sure which is worse.By taking the role, you will be viewed as having taken sides with the people recruiting you, but if anyone else on the team thinks it was done unfairly, you'll be dealing with the morale consequences, which you may paradoxically also be blamed for.Look at it this way, the people recruiting you are one or more of the following:- Afraid to have a grown up conversation with the manager they want to replace.- Afraid that if they are upfront with the problem manager he/she will leave and it will take them a long time to find a replacement, during which time things may deteriorate. If you think this is the case, be sure to increase your salary/equity requirements substantially.- Trying to sneakily get the upper hand on the problem manager by recruiting you behind his/her back. Anyone on the team you'd inherit who respected the former manager will likely assume you are part of the problem.Also, sometimes when a manager is viewed negatively it's because someone on the team has the ear of higher-ups and is badmouthing the manager. So while it's possible that you would be getting a role that was inhabited by someone who couldn't quite pull it off, it's also possible that you're stepping into a situation with a lot of politics and a mutinous atmosphere. Perhaps ask if they are considering anyone on the problem manager's team for the role. If they are that might be a tell.I'd approach it with caution, especially if considering leaving a role that you enjoy. At the very least, there are enough warning signs that you should only accept if you are ready to re-enter the job market if the culture is truly broken.

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gyardley将近 9 年前

Talk to as many people as you can at the company, especially people who aren't in leadership positions. Ask if you can talk to a couple of the people who'd be reporting to you. A scheduled interview is like talking to a provided reference, while an unscheduled interview is like calling up someone not on the provided reference list - you're more likely to get something interesting from the latter.Whether it's a scheduled or unscheduled interview, people generally want to speak honestly with you - they just might not feel like they have permission to do so, or feel that airing the company's dirty laundry would be inappropriate. In my experience, it can be hard to get people to initially admit things aren't perfect, but once they've done so, the floodgates open.I tend to ask things like "so, how would you rate working here on a scale of one to ten?" Unless they're absolutely delighted with their workplace, most people respond with an eight or a nine, which doesn't mean anything - you'll get an eight or nine if the company's pretty great, and you'll get an eight or nine if the company's a total dumpster fire. But then you can say "A nine? Why not a ten? What would make your experience here a ten?" This doesn't always work, but at this point the interviewee figures they've already admitted the company isn't 100% ideal and I've usually gotten an unvarnished opinion.

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devonkim将近 9 年前

Having been in a similar position before, here's my questions and considerations.1. Why are they looking externally for a candidate instead of an internal candidate that is more familiar and has a track record with the company than a brand new leader?2. What were the specific expectations of the incumbent leader and how long have they been in the position? Someone needs to explain what happened and realize that this very same dynamic could happen to you. If nobody communicates with a person that they think their communication is bad, it's a passive-aggressive culture that won't lead to good outcomes more often than not, especially long term.3. What's the turnover rate for the team? Don't believe whatever they tell you, but make a note. Then try to assess its veracity based upon Linkedin stalking of both currently employed and past employees.4. What's the highest level of management that is in agreement of replacing this person? If something came from really high up, I'd ask if there was a specific incident. I've seen people let go because they made exactly one hot-headed executive very angry for flippant reasons and while everyone in management that actually knew these people were fine, their hands were tied. That kind of leadership style is micromanagement oftentimes and the toxicity and blame games will eventually make their way down the longer the leader stays.

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thinkingkong将近 9 年前

Communications issues are usually two-sided so I'd lean more heavily towards figuring out what those could be. 30 people split between 3 timezones is challenging.1) Ask why the other person is leaving for real. They should be vulnerable and tell you the truth. Sometimes they'll hide behind something like "thats confidential" which you can't really argue with, but I'd dig into it. If they get nervous walk away.2) Ask them what systems or processes they want to improve or change and why. What isn't working? etc.3) How will you be evaluated in your role. Sometimes there are unclear expectations from managers or any other "leadership" style role at a company. This isn't OK because it might just take one person to change their mind about how you're doing for you to be "not good enough". Again; dig into it.4) How is the company doing from a financial perspective. Whats the burn? Whats the revenue? What's the LTV/CAC? If they can't answer or won't, I'd consider that a red flag.5) How is the product roadmap set. How far out are they thinking? Make sure it lines up with your vision of how to organize groups the right way.

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cabacon将近 9 年前

My favorite interviewing question as an IC was "Tell me about someone on your team you admire". It let me learn about what people valued based on why people were admired, and gave some depth-of-bench sense whether there were lots of distinct names, or if everyone was in awe of the one good person on the team.If you're looking for cross-team health, maybe you could adapt it to "Tell me about someone on the other team that you admire?"

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sreejithr将近 9 年前

I understand you're not looking for a software engineering position. But for what it's worth, being in a company with an almost toxic work culture right now, here's some stuff I'll vent out.Talk to a lot of people in the company. Can't overstate this enough. People you work with/work under should NOT BE ASSHOLES. Assholes are a pain to deal with everyday and will take a toll on your emotional health.I talked with my interviewer, who happens to be my manager, and asked him what he feels about Docker (not that Docker is the most bleeding edge tech). He said he didn't like it and would never implement it in <my-company> because some other dude in his previous firm introduced it there and he doesn't like that dude. Ouch! I should've taken the hint. Look for people who debate with you based on knowledge/data and not with emotions.If your interviewer/founder bathes you in startup buzzword crap, RUN! If they say, we're "open", "transparent", "humble", "impact", "growth hacking" etc 5+ times in the conversation, he's just faking it to make it sound hipster. I learned this the hard way.Boy, I ranted. I should really get a job change. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ChuckMcM将近 9 年前

It is important to separate challenges of "second level" (sometimes called director level) management from "first level" (sometimes called line level) management. If you will be managing managers, that requires you to be able to evaluate their group as a unit much like a line manager needs to evaluate employees for their effectiveness. Group effectiveness is very biased by management style and communication.I wouldn't read too much into the fact that you'd be replacing a manager who is already working there. One of the "perks" of being a manager is that you have a big target on your back when it comes to overall organizational goals and morale. Scott McNealy used to joke "one step up, one step closer to the door." because directors and executives don't fire individual contributors, they fire managers when things aren't working out. And there are a ton of reasons that things might not work out, not the least of which is that the manager's manager can't effectively communicate "through" them. It can be a leadership style, it can be mutual respect, it can be different baggage that each of them are carrying from previous experiences.What is important for you to understand in the interview is the sort of communication issues that got this person into trouble, you need to know that so you can evaluate how likely it is that you're communication style would be compatible. Some senior managers will say "get it done" and some will be very prescriptive about how (aka micromanaging) and some will be open to feedback and others will consider feedback insubordination.Understand what they expect (both things they expect someone to do, and things they are expected NOT to do in that role) and how they evaluate what they see. Then ask yourself if you feel like you can live in that system or not.

compiler-guy将近 9 年前

I like to ask things like, "If you could change one thing about the company engineering practices, what would it be?"The answers can be telling. If they give an answer like, like, "I wish we would adopt $random_programming_language." That, to me, indicates a fairly healthy organization, because this is just one guy's technical preference.If they give an answer like, "We need need to stop thrashing", that gives a different picture.If they say, "Nothing at all", you need to run, because they can't think critically about themselves.If they use pronouns like "them" and "they" instead of "us" and "we", then the interviewer doesn't feel like part of the team.

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DelaneyM将近 9 年前

Worry less about "organizational health" and more about "organizational fit"."Healthy" can mean different things to different people. Some employees care primarily about work/life balance, and being able to sneak out early on Fridays to hit the slopes. (I'm looking at you, entire state of Colorado.) Others want a high-pressure, high-reward environment, where their colleagues live up to the same high standards they expect of themselves. (cough Amazon cough)So rather than trying to find a place which is healthy, find somewhere which is healthy for you; with a culture which reflects your values, benefits which support your lifestyle and leaders who help you grow.No company is a perfect employer and no person a perfect employee, but that doesn't mean there doesn't exist perfect relationships.

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Raphmedia将近 9 年前

Observe the employees.Is the office full after 5 - 6 PM? Is everyone looking at the floor when the boss walk in? Is everyone's nails bitten to a bloody mess? Are there any female employees? Are the desk too clean and absent of personal items?

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rianjs将近 9 年前

So they told you, an external candidate, that they're firing someone, and that you would take their position?That's a pretty big red flag with respect to organizational behavior. It seems incredibly unprofessional.

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kognate将近 9 年前

I would ask them what, specifically, within the organization itself failed w/r/t the manager being replaced and what has the organization changed to prevent the same thing from happening in the future.For example, did they not evaluate the manager before putting them into a position where they failed? How do they know it was a communication problem? Remember, this question is not asking the details of what happened (those don't really matter). This question is asking what the organization did and how does the organization improve itself over time.The last thing I'll say is that it's very difficult to establish the 'health' of a team during a brief interview. 'Health' is often variable in that what I find healthy and effective you may not. Most teams aren't filled with psychopaths. Also, if you have the right tools and a willing team you (that's a plural you) can change and build a team that is healthy and productive.

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jarsin将近 9 年前

"Communication" issues is a catchall b.s. reason rarely used for legitimate reasons. Whenever i hear it my b.s. radar sounds and I instantly suspect the person claiming another has communication problems as trying to undermine them...throw them under the bus etc.The reason being is its an abstract issue that is hard to define or fix.Have them clearly define the "communication" issue that led to the person getting fired.

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zer00eyz将近 9 年前

There are a lot of things you can ask for that will red flag an organization as a whole.Are you being given stock. Ask for a cap table and learn to read it.Tell them your wiling to sign an NDA, and that you want to look at the repository. Tell them that you may need to ask follow up "who is who" questions to pin checkins. Code never lies. Embattled areas of code, and comments are great targets for your search.Ask about recent outages and technical issues. Are they having problems keeping things up and running. Ask about how they were identified and how long to resolve.Do they have documents for requirements? Wireframes, PRD's. Ask to see these as well.If they raise any objection to any of this, just ask for a reason. It might set off an alarm for you. It might be reasonable.Since you have some history with the other team leads, make a personal phone call. Start the call off that way (that its a personal call) and that you want to know the truth/history here because you have concerns. If there is something funny going on in the background one of them might just give you an honest answer.

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sailfast将近 9 年前

This flips your question on its head a bit, but are you going into this offer excited to try and get the teams to work better together, or because you want a role leading teams that are already working really well?If you expect to inherit fully functional teams I think you're probably not going to enjoy the gig. If, however, you're excited about the chance to get a group of developers firing on all cylinders again then perhaps this is the right job for you.If you want to ask a question, I'd ask what challenge they have experienced to date linking these teams together to get them working well. What specific things do they expect you to try and fix and improve, etc. I'd also ask how, as leaders at the company, they stay aware of how things are going, touchpoints, etc.Key symptom for a lot of issues at a company tends to be a lack of transparency (at least this has been my experience). Asking questions that get to employee engagement, involvement, and feedback processes can be good signals of transparency or potential issues.

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smacktoward将近 9 年前

Just ask them straight out what the "communications issues" with the existing manager are.If you're uncomfortable challenging them, frame it as you trying to be the best candidate you can be. "If I take this position, I want to make sure I have a full understanding from day one of what I need to do to contribute the most to the team. What could I be doing to help you?"This is a question they really ought to be able to answer; not in terms of why the current person sucks, but in terms of where the team is breaking down currently. A good answer to this question means they've thought about the problems and the personnel change is part of some kind of strategy to solve them, which is a good sign.If they won't answer that, odds are their internal culture isn't very communicative in general, which is bad. And if they can't answer that, it means they don't know where the breakdowns are and are just blaming someone reflexively, which is even worse.

keithflower将近 9 年前

Ask permission to talk to the outgoing manager. If they balk at transparency, you'll know where the "communications" problem lay.

mathattack将近 9 年前

A few things:1) Reach out to people who used to work there. You have to discount the negativity somewhat, but if the response is positive then that's a good sign.2) Rather than ask "Are there communications problems" you should ask "What are the biggest communication challenges?" Also ask, "What are the 2-3 most important managerial areas for me to fix on day one, and the 2-3 most important areas for me to leave alone"3) Go to Glassdoor. Again you have to discount the negativity, but that will give you good areas to probe and it's fair to ask, "I see this on Glassdoor, what do you say?"Good luck tomorrow!

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ZenoArrow将近 9 年前

A question I like to ask at the end of an interview is 'What do you most like about working here?'. Not only does it end the interview on a positive note, it also allows you to get a better grasp about what the corporate culture is like. I'd suggest that you want to look for responses that indicate a strong team dynamic, interesting work or freedom to manage your own time as long as you get the work done. However, regardless of what is said, if the responses don't quite sit right with you I'd suggest you trust your gut.

TurboHaskal将近 9 年前

Monitors.Are developers being issued several ones, and of above average quality?Do people need to stack object oriented design books to place their monitors at a comfortable level?Are they using old, low resolution, low refresh rate, 15" TFT monitors?Is there disparity between monitor quality among employees?

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bipson将近 9 年前

Some people mentioned it already indirectly, but I thought it is worth stating it clearly:Don't look for "health" indications, try to establish if the leaders established a culture you can live with (and how this current situation might be a result of that culture). I can't think of specific questions, but for me it is about how people interact, especially across the hierarchy:- How are disputes solved?- Are people allowed to disagree (especially with higher ups)?- Are people allowed to make mistakes? Were people fired because of mistakes? Is there a (perceived) "goofy" on the team (can't do anything right according to the team, yet did never really fuck up, thus is still there, but always blamed)- Is the team allowed to relax and pick up debris, hang loose, enjoy some time together, or is it in constant "sprint mode"?- Are the managers able to get the team to rally behind the same goals?- Does everyone solve his own problems, or are people actually collaborating on e.g. features/bugs/ideas?- Are there leads or managers on the team known to cause issues, yet not removed?- Is there special treatment for random people?- Is stuff openly discussed or everything on a need-to-know-basis?- Does everyone in the company have (at leas read) access to all the code?This is stuff you most certainly cannot change once it was established, especially if people stick around and even more so if the founders, managers, leads will still be there. If it does not fit your attitude, you will be in constant battle against what happens in the company and why.

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ktRolster将近 9 年前

I like to ask, "Do you have a bug tracker?" then follow up with "Is your bug count increasing or decreasing?" No matter how they answer, it tells you a lot about the organization.

MilnerRoute将近 9 年前

A friend of mine once said he asked an interviewer, "so just how screwed up is this company"? Not because he expected a straight answer, but because he wanted to watch the interviewer's first reaction -- if their facial expression showed genuine surprise, or a knowing nod, maybe even an incriminating smile...

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BurningFrog将近 9 年前

For engineering jobs, most future coworkers will tell you pretty honestly what's going on if asked directly.You don't want to have to be exposed as a liar once the candidate starts, after all.For leadership jobs, it might be a bit different.

DrNuke将近 9 年前

OP is going to talk, have a look, hopefully agree and sign a contract with people he already knows. It's a good position because, whatever rat he can smell, there is a chance both parties are willing to deal with through a written agreement. Good luck!

rrecuero将近 9 年前

Really good advice here. I would sum it up in 2 points:- Observe and engage with the employees. Asks them tough questions, you specifically want to gauge how passionate are they about the work they are doing not about working for the company per se. - Go beyond the shallow layer (perks, brand, office...) and see whether is a company where people get up in the morning looking forward to get great stuff done or a company where people can't stop looking at the clock.I have been in companies where everything seems to be great surface level: tons of perks, WFH, free food... But then nobody seems to be excited about the work itself.

titomc将近 9 年前

check the coffee machine, general cleanliness of the office especially breakroom if they are clean and well stocked,look for notices on printers or washroom's that "xxxxx is not working & repairs has been notified". See if they have a gym,check the condition of office chairs,are they ergonomic ?. Ask about appraisal process and career path. If they dont answer well and the interviewer is not clear on that,it means an unhealthy org structure. Finally check on glassdoor and a wild card search on google with the email domain of the org,something interesting might come up.

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lisivka将近 9 年前

3 teams on 3 continents is not a problem. Moreover, when teams are separated strongly, i.e. no video and/or voice communication between teams, it helps to create healthy team, because non-realtime text-based communication causes well-written documentation and well-defined goals (just because it is much faster to write throughout description of goal once, in lengthy email or ticket, that to iterate with iteration cycle length equal to 1 day). Just use SCRUM, and follow it fanatically, and it will work. BTW: 2 week sprints are the best in such case.

dccoolgai将近 9 年前

Some interesting advice I got from another thread a while back: During your interview excuse yourself to the restroom at some point. The general cleanliness there says a lot about how they value employees.

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TheMog将近 9 年前

I would definitely ask them to elaborate on the communcations issues.I would also ask how they're currently handling three teams on three continents - if you as a manager are supposed to deal with all three teams and at least one of them is "needy", I wouldn't be surprised if the communications issue is that the current manager is speaking in tongues because he hasn't had more than an hour's worth of sleep a night for the past year...

ydt将近 9 年前

There's plenty of good advice in this thread, but ultimately you won't know until you work there. After 20 years in the business, what I've done and would advise people to do, is to negotiate a 6 month contract-to-hire arrangement. This way it's all out in the open that you'll be evaluating each other and there's less hard feelings if you walk at the end of the contract.

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mud_dauber将近 9 年前

I condensed your suggestions into a simple PasteBin at <a href="http://pastebin.com/ueLdcVmQ" rel="nofollow">http://pastebin.com/ueLdcVmQ</a>. Thanks so much - I am grateful to all of you.

wott将近 9 年前

Hum... How many managers are there in in this company? I can be wrong because you don't say it explicitely, but I have the feeling from your writings that they are numerous, compared to the small numbers of total employees.

hiou将近 9 年前

Communication problem is the biggest red flag there is in my personal opinion. I have never had a communication problem and no skilled manager or executive ever will. Because it only takes one side to have effective communication.

ninjakeyboard将近 9 年前

I understand what you're looking for and certainly can relate! Here is a counterpoint:As a lead, are you not confident that you can bring a circle of health with you? Influence and change the environment as you see necessary?

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0xmohit将近 9 年前

> They want to replace the existing manager for vague, but apparently real, "communication" problems ..."Communication" is a two-way process.As they say: Communicate, it can't make things worse.

byoung2将近 9 年前

Is this outgoing manager already gone? If not, see if you can talk to him/her. Take that story, and the story you get from the people hiring you, and average them.

ali_ibrahim将近 9 年前

Check out their employees reviews at www.glassdoor.com

kevin_thibedeau将近 9 年前

Interview them. If they're hiding something a few innocent questions can expose their ruse.

jlebrech将近 9 年前

they should really be hiring a few contractors for the overlap, otherwise they'll get a new guy that can leave because of running into the same problems the current guy is having.

sabman83将近 9 年前

See if you know someone on LinkedIn who knows someone in the org.

yanilkr将近 9 年前

Its a leadership position, Can't you deal with the situation? are you hoping to find a perfect team to lead?IMO, Its a negotiation. Ask for autonomy so you can shape the culture the way you want it to be.

okonomiyaki3000将近 9 年前

Gosh! I really misread that subject line...

whordeley将近 9 年前

Listen to this. Tell the interviewer that he has a some shit on his face, gesturing toward the location on your own face. Observe his reaction very carefully, it tells you everything you need to know about a person. If he is genuinely grateful then that is someone who will be a loyal boss and potentially friend. If he acts defensively or if it puts him off in any way then he's a phony racist liberal and his company will fail.

RomanPushkin将近 9 年前

How many tests do you have? More tests is better. For a 3-year old product the number should be around 10k.How many of them red? If tests are red - it's bad. For how long they are red?If there is a need to "fix approximately hundred tests", it's a bad sign.I found that amount of tests, tests execution time, test coverage is very important and it answers almost all the questions.How often did you need to sacrifice test coverage to deliver the software? There is always a need to release, there is always deadline. It depends how company react. For example, during Rails 5 release they don't care, just push deadline. It's a good sign, because folks understand that code quality == developer happiness.