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String theorist Edward Witten says consciousness “will remain a mystery”

45 点作者 RubyMyDear将近 9 年前

16 条评论

xg15将近 9 年前
Personal opinion: I can imagine that the reason of how we <i>experience</i> consciousness might be unsolvable, much as the question how the color blue feels is hard to answer objectively.<p>However, I think there are a lot less fuzzy questions that are strongly connected with consciousness that I&#x27;m hoping can be find answers for - and that could shed some more light on what consciousness is and what it isn&#x27;t. Such as:<p>- what are memories? Could we build some machine to extract or even manipulate them? Is it possible to compare memories of different people?<p>- what are dreams?<p>- different parts of our body are affected differently by our consciousness: Some things we can control directly, like hands, feet, speech, etc; some processes we cannot control but we do experience them, such as hunger or sleep; and some we neither control nor experience such as digestion, homeostasis etc, even though they are also regulated by the brain. Even more couriously, many of those autonomous processes <i>are</i> greatly affected by conscious thoughts even though we don&#x27;t experience them as directly controllable - such as fear and arousal. Inversely, conscious actions often have autonomous &quot;sub routines&quot;, such as walking. So what what mechanism in the brain governs which processes are conscious and which are not?<p>- Suppose we could actually do brain transplants. Assume we put an adult human brain in a jar and connect it with some kind of VR. Could the brain learn to control a non-human body such as a spider? How about a human body with different proportions?
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HONEST_ANNIE将近 9 年前
Witten:<p>&gt; But I think there probably will remain a level of mystery regarding why the brain is functioning in the ways that we can see it, why it creates consciousness or whatever you want to call it. How it functions in the way a conscious human being functions will become clear. But what it is we are experiencing when we are experiencing consciousness, I see as remaining a mystery...<p>Understanding the difference between __workings__ and experience of consciousness, the hard problem of consciousness [1], is crucial for understanding what Witten says. Witten says that while science will figure out how mind works in great detail the hard problem of consciousness remains outside science.<p>It&#x27;s easy to be sympathetic to Witten. The problem with consciousness seems to be with intuitive meaning of a word and concept.<p>Imagine that someone builds small programs -- or really small brains in a vat -- that are conscious of color blue, or feel universal love and nothing else. Program&#x27;s attention and awareness never goes elsewhere and it performs no other cognitive tasks than being conscious in the moment without long term memory. Can you imagine scientists going trough the __workings__ -- code, neuron diagrams or state representations -- of it&#x27;s mind and going, oh this thing clearly conscious, we can see it now and agree.<p>There seems to be assumption that the hard problem of consciousness is tied to multiple high level cognitive capabilities. I don&#x27;t see the connection. The crux of being conscious is having the cognitive ability of aware-consiouns-attentative-reflective at least tiny amount of time. If we could scientifically determine what consciousness is, we should be able to make nice hyper-aware-of-blue-and-knowing-it program and it would be relatively simple one.<p>[1]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scholarpedia.org&#x2F;article&#x2F;Hard_problem_of_consciousness" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scholarpedia.org&#x2F;article&#x2F;Hard_problem_of_consciou...</a>
paulofalcao将近 9 年前
The article is based on a video from 2014. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=RfwsvSjXkJU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=RfwsvSjXkJU</a>
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visarga将近 9 年前
Rather than physics, I think computational neurology and machine learning &#x2F; deep learning &#x2F; AI have a much better chance at elucidating what consciousness is.
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danieltillett将近 9 年前
Of course it will remain a mystery until we can get to an agreed definition of what consciousness is. Until then it is just an argument in semantics.<p>On a personal note I have never been very impressed with arguments over the importance of consciousness. I have had too many experiences in life where consciousness is grey to feel it is anything other than a just-so story of what happened.
JulianMorrison将近 9 年前
See, if a neuroscientist went and had an opinion on sub-atomic physics, people would say &quot;that&#x27;s nice&quot; and pat them on the head in a patronizing way. But the problem is general. A scientist outside their field <i>is a layman</i>.
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paulofalcao将近 9 年前
If the simulation theory is true, our memory, and all brain activity is done in the simulation (aka real world), but consciousness no. With no consciousness we could have a identical behavior, we would be intelligent zombies. Its cool to think that the world is rendered only when conscious beings see the world (&quot;is the moon there when nobody looks?&quot;). Or... are YOU the only one with consciousness? :)
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hacker_9将近 9 年前
We understand consciousness perfectly, being conscious beings an all. It&#x27;s the physical world that doesn&#x27;t make any sense.
tpm将近 9 年前
A very good book about what we currently (minus 3 years, perhaps) know: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Consciousness-Brain-Deciphering-Codes-Thoughts&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0143126261&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Consciousness-Brain-Deciphering-Codes...</a>
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golergka将近 9 年前
I have no evidence or proof, but personally, I believe that the whole consciousness thing is an illusion. There&#x27;s certain level of abstraction required for a bran as advanced as human&#x27;s, but in the end, it&#x27;s just matter following the laws of physics, same as everything else.
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acqq将近 9 年前
In my experience all those &quot;consciousness is otherworldly magic&quot; people are at least heavily influenced (1) by the religious interpretation of the &quot;magical uniqueness&quot; of the humans compared to the all other living beings. Wishful thinking. Then comes the &quot;free will&quot; and other also &quot;magical&quot; thinking. Especially easy to sell in the US (2)<p>And we aren&#x27;t made of anything other than what all the animals are made of, and the underlying processes in our brains aren&#x27;t physically unique. And there&#x27;s no &quot;spirit&quot; or &quot;soul&quot; needed to explain anything.<p>The word spirit comes from Latin spiritus &quot;breath.&quot; Ditto for the term for soul &quot;psyche&quot; which comes from the ancient Greek psykhe with the original meaning &quot;breath.&quot; That&#x27;s all that &quot;leaves us&quot; when we die (as we &quot;have our last breath&quot;) and from where all the magical thinking came.<p>The consciousness is just a product of evolution, and &quot;a kind of self awareness&quot; exists by animals too. Not much different from what we observe by ourselves, and actually of direct evolutionary advantage.<p>More about all that:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vice.com&#x2F;read&#x2F;sorry-religions-human-consciousness-is-just-a-consequence-of-evolution" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vice.com&#x2F;read&#x2F;sorry-religions-human-consciousness...</a><p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.livescience.com&#x2F;26338-crabs-feel-pain.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.livescience.com&#x2F;26338-crabs-feel-pain.html</a><p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;backreaction.blogspot.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;01&#x2F;free-will-is-dead-lets-bury-it.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;backreaction.blogspot.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;01&#x2F;free-will-is-dead-l...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Demon-Haunted_World" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Demon-Haunted_World</a><p>---<p>1) if themselves not explicitly declared believers or at least philosophers, the latter having all the incentives to mystify the topic and stay away from the hard sciences<p>2) 4 of 10 in the US believe &quot;that God created humans in their present form 10,000 years ago: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gallup.com&#x2F;poll&#x2F;170822&#x2F;believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gallup.com&#x2F;poll&#x2F;170822&#x2F;believe-creationist-view-h...</a>
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moonshinefe将近 9 年前
It may be a mystery for some time, but I suspect we&#x27;ll figure it out eventually. Given the rapid pace medical science understanding has gone through in the last several hundred years, it seems likely.
Angostura将近 9 年前
This reminds me rather of Roger Penrose&#x27;s foray into consciousness in The Emperor&#x27;s New Mind.<p>If you wade your way through it, you&#x27;ll find the tl;dr is &#x27;consciousness must be a quantum thing because quantum things are mysterious and so is consciousness- oh and look at those microtubules in those neurons - you might get quantum effects in there.&#x27;<p>Rather disappointing for such a brilliant man.
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thedonkeycometh将近 9 年前
And he would know... &lt;insert punchline here&gt;
Vanit将近 9 年前
Insert opinion on consciousness here, because having it means I understand it at a low level.
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mozumder将近 9 年前
Consciousness is based on a fifth fundamental force in the universe, and certain structures, like DNA, are tuned into that force, like an antenna.
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