Tor’s Branding Pivot Is Going to Get Someone Killed

235 点作者 tshtf超过 8 年前

20 条评论

trendia超过 8 年前

Tor is no longer secure; the U.S. government paid Carnegie Mellon (CMU) to research ways of de-anonymizing users by inserting specially designed packets into Tor user data at controlled nodes. [1]Nearly a year-and-a-half after CMU canceled a Black Hat presentation, hints were dropped that CMU's Tor-related efforts may not have been for research purposes only. An anonymous tipster claimed the FBI had paid CMU $1 million to unmask Tor users. A quasi-confirmation popped up during the DOJ's prosecution of Brian Ferrell, who was allegedly assisting Blake Benthall in running Silk Road 2.0. Ferrell and Benthall were both swept up in the wake of a Tor-related FBI raid known as "Operation Onymous," which began a few months after the hastily-cancelled Black Hat talk.Included in the information handed over to Farrell's legal representative was the following:On October 13, 2015, the government provided defense counsel a letter indicating that Mr. Farrell’s involvement with Silk Road 2.0 was identified based on information obtained by a “university-based research institute” that operated its own computers on the anonymous network used by Silk Road 2.0.[1] <a href="https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160225/07295633707/silk-road-20-court-docs-show-us-government-paid-carnegie-mellon-researchers-to-unmask-tor-users.shtml" rel="nofollow">https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160225/07295633707/silk-...</a>

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Freak_NL超过 8 年前

From the article:> You propose running a Tor node or using Tor internally. Before, this was just something you could do. After Tor’s pivot, you now have to justify why the company should explicitly associate itself with banned HR activism and draw the government’s ire. Using Tor is now an additional mild liability for all of its non-HR users.Using Tor already marks you as suspicious depending on who's looking, regardless of why you use it. The ideals or mission statement of the Tor project don't change this.Tor suffers from the same impediment as the Bittorrent protocol; it is used a lot for illegal purposes, so a stigma of illegality surrounds the tool itself. By focusing on the legitimate use of Tor (e.g., as a human rights facilitating tool) the Tor project might actually improve adoption rather than frustrate it.

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ajamesm超过 8 年前

> Imagine Tor published a policy document stating: “The Tor Project proudly advances drug-use by creating and deploying usable anonymity and privacy technologies so people around the world can circumvent local drug laws.”"Imagine"? If you think this is hypothetical, bub, I have some bad news for you about the current perception of Tor.When I think "Tor user" I think of illicit pornography, black market drugs, and human rights activists. Those are pretty much your options. What nation is okay with the first two, but not the third?"Oh shit, we knew he was moving $2m USD in heroin, but we had no idea he was documenting human rights abuses! Apprehend him!" Please.

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aw3c2超过 8 年前

I long for the good old, tech-first days of Tor. This invasion of talkers and lobbyists (even if for the good cause) is ruining it.

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yuja_wang超过 8 年前

These types of issues come up a lot in well-meaning organizations. What they don't realize is: "You an include the most people by having the narrowest platform."So if you're a "privacy technology" group, anything not related to privacy technology should not be part of your focus.Ever Civil War, for example, has two (or more sides). Now the Tor group has to pick one. If they were simply interested in privacy technology, they wouldn't have to.You see a similar thing with Codes of Conduct, or "inclusiveness" initiatives. Why can't a Python conference be about Python and only about Python?

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syshum超过 8 年前

It is sad to watch the Tor Project implode. While it in no way impacts the project as I was a very very very very minor user of Tor in the first place, I have removed any and all installations of Tor from my systems, and will no longer donate to or support them in any wayTor has lost their mission, which should have been Privacy above all else.Today they seem to be more focused on Social Justice, and less about privacy.

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_b8r0超过 8 年前

I hope Tor Project Inc can resolve the issues it faces.After a bumpy start, Rotorproject[1] is starting to iron out a plan. It's my hope that Rotorproject can help Tor Inc resolve it's issues while simultaneously providing alternatives to the current (technical) monoculture in terms of easily usable anonymity.I think advancing human rights are a reasonable goal, but when I've seen political activism as a specific project goal, I've yet to see long term success.[1] - <a href="https://phab.rotorproject.org/w/general_project_information/" rel="nofollow">https://phab.rotorproject.org/w/general_project_information/</a>

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ramblenode超过 8 年前

This is an interesting point I hadn't considered but I'm skeptical the rebranding will substantially change anything for people living in repressive countries. Governments that flag someone as suspicious or arrest someone for using Tor would have done so before the rebranding. These governments don't need to convince a jury or an impartial judge that Tor is a dissident network. They are already well aware of how Tor is used to circumvent the government firewall both by commoners who just want to watch YouTube videos and by activists to communicate.

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cclements超过 8 年前

There may be good arguments why not to use Tor, but this doesn't seem to be one of them.

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sschueller超过 8 年前

I keep saying this but we need a working implementation of riffle sooner than later. From what I understand it solves some of the shortcomings of tor.<a href="http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711" rel="nofollow">http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711</a>

jbmorgado超过 8 年前

There is something that baffles me in these kind of posts.Why do you act like it's the west obligation to solve your social problems?TOR was created in the west, its main contributors are from the west and now - and very rightly so - the people in front of TOR identified the eroding of personal privacy as an eroding of our human rights in the west and they want to change that.It's good for the west, is good for the TOR creators and main contributors. If it's not good in the Orient or middle East, then instead of complaining you should be creating and contributing to projects that help your purposes and your social advancement.

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vacri超过 8 年前

> For example, say you’re a sysadmin at a local business wishing to further secure its comms. You propose running a Tor node or using Tor internally.I had to stifle a giggle at this 'example'. I have to wonder how many 'local businesses' so value their comms that they want to hide their origin at the expense of significantly downgrading their bandwidth... and what do these 'local businesses' look like?

tptacek超过 8 年前

Potentially getting people killed shouldn't be news to anyone who's been involved with Tor over the past decade.

zmanian超过 8 年前

Virgil seems to be willfully ignorant. Tor needs greater political support in the West because of second crypto wars. Tor also needs more funding that is available for work on privacy and anonymity to support use cases like Securedrop. Too much of Tor's current funding is tied to censorship resistance applications of Tor.

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bahjoite超过 8 年前

The author's argument that the Tor Project is throwing its users under a bus isn't convincing. The Tor tools and the reasons to use them haven't changed with the introduction of the Tor Project's new mission statement and social contract. The profile of a Tor user hasn't changed and nor has the meaning of Tor's traffic on the network. A Tor user confronted by the Authorities is still able to give "privacy" as their reason for its use. An at risk Tor user is still at risk and it is far from clear that the Tor Project's stated mission increases their risk.I think the author conflates the risk to Tor users with the risk to Tor Project members and volunteers. It may well be true that the latter groups are at greater risk.

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shiven超过 8 年前

Anyone trusting Tor for anything anymore is asking for trouble. Their new branding and associated bravado is just weak-sauce attempts at projecting technical soundness in the face of getting their tech butt-torn by the CMU hack. You can google the details of the hack yourself.Anyone, with even an iota of self-preservation in them, is best served staying away from this identity-leaking crapware. There is no gentle way of putting it. Tor is fundamentally and practically compromisable, do not trust it for guarding your anonymity against a determined adversary.No. I don't have any suggestions for alternatives either.

ryanlol超过 8 年前

<a href="https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000582.html" rel="nofollow">https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July...</a>This attitude from someone representing the Tor project is, to put it mildly, terrifying.But I guess fundraising matters more than lives of actual real human beings.[1][1] I'm inclined to believe the author slightly exaggerates the risk, but the reply completely neglects to address that issue. Trying to shift blame on local governments is hardly an option when those are the ones you're trying to defy.

nstj超过 8 年前

I missed the part in the article where it describes how the change in branding will result in someone's death?

ashitlerferad超过 8 年前

Tor's response:<a href="https://medium.com/@virgilgr/tors-branding-pivot-is-going-to-get-someone-killed-6ee45313b559#.z1vs8xyjz" rel="nofollow">https://medium.com/@virgilgr/tors-branding-pivot-is-going-to...</a>

nxzero超过 8 年前

Quick review of weaknesses listed on the Wikipedia page for Tor make it pretty obvious that Tor is a threat to majority of users that if discovered be face serious, if not life threatening, responses.Why do people continue to use it?<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)</a>

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