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Inclusivity Is a Joke

320 点作者 brakmic超过 8 年前

28 条评论

zeta0134超过 8 年前
Inclusivity is one of those things that you just have to do, and not talk about. I sincerely hope the irony of excluding this man in the name of inclusivity is not lost on the crowd. What a mess.<p>I think more people would do well to practice the tolerance and acceptance that they preach. As a gay man, I&#x27;ve run into my fair share of loud mouthed, biggoted people, who say incredibly mean things about me without realizing that they&#x27;re affecting someone in the same room. A good deal of my friends are Christians, and a good deal of my family is as well. At least in our churches, being gay is considered quite a heavy sin. Somewhat intuitively then, when I came out to my family, I was simultaneously declaring that I would no longer be a part of their religion.<p>And you know? We didn&#x27;t fight about it. They understand my limitations, and I still love them. I&#x27;m still friends with my Christian friends, and I&#x27;m still on great terms with my family. We disagree on certain things but that&#x27;s OK, because they&#x27;ve learned to see the good in my unique outlook on life, and I&#x27;ve learned to understand the love tolerance that their Jesus teaches, because I watch them practice it every day. We&#x27;ve learned to accept one another, despite our differences.<p>Inclusivity is not hard, but it starts with avoiding conflict. You&#x27;re going to have to tolerate that which occasionally offends you, and learn to let it go. Learn to love people despite their flaws, because goodness do people have flaws. We&#x27;re not perfect. Nowhere near it. But all people still have some good in them, and it&#x27;s worth making the effort to see past that which you dislike to appreciate the human being underneath it all.
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trjordan超过 8 年前
The part of this article that highlights what Douglas Crockford did to get him removed from Nodevember is fine. A bit boring, but fine.<p>The part of this article that generally hand-waves towards &quot;inclusivity&quot; as a movement and dismisses them as people with &quot;unicorn-colored hair&quot; is frustrating. There&#x27;s little here that actually discusses the issue. It points out a couple of things that Douglas said, trivializes the issues that the inclusivity group cares about, and seems to make its primary point by arguing semantics (oh, look, the inclusivity group excludes people, har har).<p>I get that its an opinion piece, but there&#x27;s nothing of substance here that I could possibly disagree with, because it&#x27;s not defined. If you want to get a bunch of people agree with you and give you internet points, it&#x27;s spot on. But there&#x27;s not a lot here that&#x27;s interesting if you&#x27;re not already on board with this point of view.
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noobermin超过 8 年前
Sometimes I wonder if these groups are false flags. I know they aren&#x27;t, but perhaps it is better to say they are their own parody. There are serious issues out there, discrimination is alive and has been demonstrated in studies, statistics, etc. Garbage like this makes a mockery of the whole thing, the real hurt and issues gets mixed in with this trash and gives some people, I&#x27;m sure, solace that all of it is just a tempest in a teapot, and there are no real issues out there.<p>Groups and fake controversies like this distract from <i>real</i> issues of discrimination. They do more harm to inclusive movements than good.
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okket超过 8 年前
See also:<p>&quot;In defence of Douglas Crockford&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12422420" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12422420</a><p>&quot;Crockford&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12425061" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12425061</a>
dasil003超过 8 年前
I consider myself an ally on most social justice issues. The kind of abuse heaped on women online is unconscionable to me. Not to mention Black Lives Matter where people are actually dying because of systemic prejudice. So you have those issues on one side, there are a lot of them and we need to work on them as a society.<p>A step down from that big stuff, you have crass offensive behavior like sexual innuendo in conference talks and other things that can pretty readily be identified as going to make a lot of people uncomfortable. It makes sense for professional conferences to have policies against those things.<p>Then you have this long tail of ways that a person can be offended by subtle interpretations that are impossible to wholly avoid by premeditation except through sheer paranoid blandness. This is the bucket where it seems like this Crockford nonsense falls, and this is also where the movement loses my support. They&#x27;ve crossed the line from helping people to just reaching for the torches and pitchforks, and completely lost the thread that liberalism was once about <i>tolerance</i>.
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hubert123超过 8 年前
Inclusivity is an attempt to ban certain kind of speech. I have found that these people are downright religious in their zeal. Example: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;nodejs&#x2F;inclusivity&#x2F;issues&#x2F;9" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;nodejs&#x2F;inclusivity&#x2F;issues&#x2F;9</a><p>I&#x27;m not even going to comment further on this, I have found that arguments, sanity and reason do nothing here.
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pkd超过 8 年前
I liked it much more when open source was about the code and not the people behind it. Nowadays I worry that I might be called out for using a piece of code (however good it might be) just because the person who wrote it does not use &quot;inclusive&quot; language.
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elmigranto超过 8 年前
Some people hear someone say X, put the most sickening meaning into it, get offended, cry on twitter. Pretty sure &quot;saying X&quot; is not the problem here.
fennecfoxen超过 8 年前
Anecdotally, this seems to be a stronger thing in Node.js community than others. I recall on occasion on the Node channel on Freenode when I got chewed out by the ops+ for not being inclusive enough with a casual &quot;later, guys&quot; (or &quot;later, dudes&quot;).<p>(+ bona fide opped ops, notwithstanding the Freenode &quot;low channel temperature&quot; guidelines)
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oli5679超过 8 年前
Paul Graham&#x27;s Essay on &#x27;What You Can&#x27;t Say&#x27;<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;say.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;say.html</a>
knucklesandwich超过 8 年前
Some people in the developer community need to get better at recognizing when a witch hunt is brewing. This blog post has essentially the same content as the one yesterday on the same subject[1].<p>Like the one yesterday, it attempts to provide its own explanation for why Crockford was disinvited as the keynote speaker. However, none of these details are mentioned in the actual statement given by Nodevember[2], and there are no sources given for how this explanation was arrived at. The Nodevember statement claims he was disinvited based on some public and private feedback from speakers who felt uncomfortable attending with him as the keynote speaker. Why should we take it on face value that the circumstances documented here are actual set of circumstances that lead to him being disinvited? Where is this information even coming from?<p>One of the alleged sources is a blog post from Kas Perch[3]. The alleged slut shaming incident seems to be a minor note in a post otherwise focused on his negative and dismissive attitude towards some of the other speakers. Perhaps this is the more salient part of why this person felt uncomfortable attending with him? Perhaps there&#x27;s more feedback being kept private to protect the witch hunt from targeting those coming forward?<p>Notably I haven&#x27;t even seen a statement from Crockford crying foul over this incident. It seems to be coming entirely from other Node developers upset about the fact that he was removed as the keynote speaker. It seems like this is an argument being played out as a proxy over political stances about diversity and inclusion tactics, without a lot of consideration for the actual circumstances. Furthermore I find it very disappointing that this poorly substantiated argument is being used to demonize inclusivity and diversity overall, which is something badly needed in developer communities.<p>[1]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;atom-morgan.github.io&#x2F;in-defense-of-douglas-crockford" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;atom-morgan.github.io&#x2F;in-defense-of-douglas-crockford</a><p>[2]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;nodevember.org&#x2F;statement.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;nodevember.org&#x2F;statement.html</a><p>[3]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@nodebotanist&#x2F;why-i-won-t-be-speaking-at-conferences-with-douglas-crockford-anymore-61bc29f028c8#.b640mips1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@nodebotanist&#x2F;why-i-won-t-be-speaking-at-...</a>
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jegoodwin3超过 8 年前
Yes, one of life&#x27;s harsher lessons is just how vicious Unitarians can be.
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kazinator超过 8 年前
Donald Trump:<p>- &quot;[Mexican immigrants are] bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.&quot;<p>- &quot;Rosie [O&#x27;Donnell] is just disgusting --- she&#x27;s fat, she&#x27;s a loser. She&#x27;s a farm animal pig. She&#x27;s a beast, ok. She&#x27;s just a loser. She&#x27;s no good.&quot;<p>RESULT: <i>Just might get elected US President in November!</i><p>Obscure JavaScript geek:<p>- &quot;blah blah ... promiscuous ... blah blah ...&quot;<p>RESULT: <i>Removed from speaking at some JavaScript conference in November.</i><p>These inclusivity people need to look around a little and have a reality check. Their incredibly narrow standard for what is acceptable is not even remotely shared by the American society they live in.
pvg超过 8 年前
The statement of the organizers doesn&#x27;t give a very detailed reason why they didn&#x27;t want him giving a keynote at their conference and it certainly doesn&#x27;t say it was over a tweet or using the word &#x27;promiscuous&#x27;. That part seems to be much-repeated speculation that does nothing but fuel outrage.
kazinator超过 8 年前
You can put a network adapter into &quot;promiscuous mode&quot;.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Promiscuous_mode" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Promiscuous_mode</a><p>This causes it to disappear all night and crawl home at 11 in the morning with a hangover.
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dbg31415超过 8 年前
The number of people who go around looking for ways to be offended is seriously troubling and a fat greater theeat to humanity&#x27;s advancement.<p>If someone has something to teach me, I don&#x27;t care what he does outside of the conference -- if he uses gender biased words or votes for evil bunnies, I&#x27;m not there to talk to him about those things.<p>It was better when people knew how to comparatamentalize work and politics and religion and all the other stuff that&#x27;s personal and not relevant to the discussion at hand.
wozer超过 8 年前
If this is true, it is both ridiculous and terrible.
generic_user超过 8 年前
I think the takeaway is that when you set up a group within your organisation to promote &#x27;inclusion&#x27; or &#x27;diversity&#x27; you open the door for entrism by seasoned radical activists who have an agenda. An attempt to include &#x27;marginalized&#x27; people by excluding everyone who fails there ideological purity test is simply a witch-hunt tactic to consolidate power and subvert the direction of the organisation.<p>everyone has to be more diligent to protect there projects and communities form these corrosive people.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Entryism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Entryism</a>
brador超过 8 年前
Question: Is that Tweet Libel?<p>&gt; &quot;We will also be removing Douglas Crockford from our keynote speakers list to help make the conference a comfortable environment for all.&quot; - Nodevember Tweet<p>The implication is he creates an uncomfortable environment.<p>Libel?
tptacek超过 8 年前
We only need the one story on this on the front page, and it&#x27;s here:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12422420" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12422420</a>
xwvvvvwx超过 8 年前
pastebin of a nodevember slack channel discussing the incident:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;pastebin.com&#x2F;3mQc7DfG" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;pastebin.com&#x2F;3mQc7DfG</a><p>Source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;javascript&#x2F;comments&#x2F;50u77r&#x2F;douglas_crockford_removed_as_a_keynote_speaker_at&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;javascript&#x2F;comments&#x2F;50u77r&#x2F;douglas_...</a>
Animats超过 8 年前
Inclusivity is so last year. Look how well Trump is doing. Trump brought intolerance out of the closet. Like him or not, he&#x27;s changed American politics.
PedroBatista超过 8 年前
I&#x27;m guessing even the hardcore Victorians would consider this whole thing &quot;a bit much&quot;.
coldtea超过 8 年前
&gt;<i>Well, it basically came from some very vocal bullying from “inclusivity” folks, incidentally also a part of the Node.js inclusivity group.</i><p>The problem with &quot;inclusivity groups&quot; is that they have to find work for themselves -- even if that means busywork.
EdiX超过 8 年前
This post is currently in page four where it&#x27;s the most recent post of the page (by a large margin) and the third most upvoted post in the page. Sometimes it&#x27;s weird how algorithms work.
erichocean超过 8 年前
Node•vember? Or No•dev•ember?<p>Seems like it&#x27;s trending towards the latter.
thiht超过 8 年前
It seems the SJW movement became a new form of inquisition. What&#x27;s terrifiying is it actually convinces in real life.
wyager超过 8 年前
&gt; No, inclusivity is not about banning speech<p>&gt; Sometimes that means enforcing certain standards of speech<p>Do you hear yourself? The cognitive dissonance is incredible.
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