TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

German Federal Intelligence Service BND Violates Laws And Constitution

250 点作者 brakmic超过 8 年前

13 条评论

germanier超过 8 年前
One of the more &quot;fun&quot; things they use to justify what they do internally: the <i>outer space theory</i>. You have to know that the Federal Intelligence Service (BND) is (simplified) only allowed to operate outside Germany. Now they have antennas in Germany to monitor communication passively relayed on a satellite. As we all know, the satellite is located outside Germany, so they pretend this is legal.<p>In a similiar argument, internet exchange points in Frankfurt are declared &quot;effectively outside Germany&quot; and therefore fair game.<p>If you find that interesting, at last year&#x27;s 32C3 they had a fun renenactment of some abstruse scenes full of such things[0] from the parliamentary investigation committee on the NSA and its cooperation with the BND (which itself is not filmed publicly). English interpretation is available. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;media.ccc.de&#x2F;v&#x2F;32c3-7225-grundrechte_gelten_nicht_im_weltall#download" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;media.ccc.de&#x2F;v&#x2F;32c3-7225-grundrechte_gelten_nicht_im...</a><p>To anyone German-speaking[1] in Berlin I can recommend visiting a session of the committee. It&#x27;s really illuminating to see those intelligence agents trying to save their face firsthand. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bundestag.de&#x2F;bundestag&#x2F;ausschuesse18&#x2F;ua&#x2F;1untersuchungsausschuss&#x2F;tagesordnungen" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bundestag.de&#x2F;bundestag&#x2F;ausschuesse18&#x2F;ua&#x2F;1untersu...</a><p>[0]: Did you know that US intelligence interrogated refugees in Germany on &quot;the bread supply situation&quot; in their home countries and used Google Maps for that?<p>[1]: Sometimes they have English-speaking witnesses. This week it&#x27;s people from the ACLU but they also had an US drone pilot and a Verizon executive in the past.
评论 #12431040 未加载
solatic超过 8 年前
You all need to understand... in the age of the Internet, every governmental body which deals with computers under any veil of secrecy&#x2F;classification inevitably uses that veil of secrecy or classification to break the law.<p>Every. Single. One.<p>It&#x27;s just too easy for them not to. The incentives are stacked against them to keep the law. There are too many internal controls that are necessary to pass in order to obey the law, so just like in any other human endeavor, management will follow the path of least resistance. They are protected by national security &#x2F; classification law from anybody finding out. If it leaks anyway that they broke the law? Nobody will be fired or sent to jail, and the whistle-blower will be tried for treason for leaking classified information.<p>If we, as citizens, abhor this behavior - we must fix the incentives. There is no other way.
评论 #12432082 未加载
cm3超过 8 年前
I&#x27;ve lost general respect for German intelligence and policing apparati after Thuringen willfully destroyed evidence regarding right-wing-terrorists to cover their misdeeds. Happened again later in a murder case in Kassel in the same investigation. It may be isolated incidents, but that this is possible and the fact that there have been no visible consequences to make up for it is telling.<p>If there are long-term interests&#x2F;plans and these are games like those played by the CIA, then at least let the public know about this little detail and argue for keeping it confidential and excuse collateral damage. I won&#x27;t condone it, but it would be an explanation, if it&#x27;s not brought forward on every 2nd incident.<p>That said, I do have respect for the foot soldiers in the force, just as I do for hospital staff.
评论 #12430771 未加载
schlowmo超过 8 年前
If you look at the media coverage of this topic in Germany so far one could come to the conclusion that those mass-surveillance operations which reach the public are considered more harmful when they are carried out by foreign agencies (Surprise!...I know). This report hit the major news front pages for only one day - my guess is that it has been longer if it was the NSA (or at least the GCHQ) instead of the BND.
评论 #12430653 未加载
themartorana超过 8 年前
It surprises me just <i>how quickly</i> the major world governments <i>all</i> started violating sovereign laws and spying on&#x2F;surveilling their own citizens. Effectively, everyone is now monitored all the time by their own governments bereft of suspicion of having committed a crime - or under the blanket suspicion of everyone being <i>capable</i> of committing a crime (AKA &quot;act of terrorism&quot;).<p>Conspiracy theorists might see the War on Terrorism as a premeditated concoction to justify massive state surveillance, since it&#x27;s about everyone&#x27;s justification. That&#x27;s silly though. We all know they just took advantage of an existing situation, right?
评论 #12430797 未加载
评论 #12430400 未加载
Sylos超过 8 年前
I would have hoped that we would last longer, given how many people here (including Angela Merkel) had suffered from the Stasi, but I guess not.
评论 #12430890 未加载
krylon超过 8 年前
&gt; The BND’s claim that this information is essential, cannot substitute a missing legal basis<p>Let this roll around on your tongue for a moment. This is kind of like robbing a bank and then saying you <i>really</i> needed the money.
评论 #12430246 未加载
评论 #12430344 未加载
plandis超过 8 年前
What country doesn&#x27;t spy and try to delicately skate around the law?<p>Everyone was surprised with US spying but honestly, why isn&#x27;t every country trying to or actively doing that too?
giardini超过 8 年前
So will this force any change in the behavior of the BND?
pjmlp超过 8 年前
So what else is new?<p>This is how secret services always worked since they exist, yes even in democratic countries.
评论 #12431032 未加载
评论 #12430820 未加载
评论 #12430784 未加载
评论 #12431011 未加载
fiatjaf超过 8 年前
So who was expecting that the State would be honest?
评论 #12430320 未加载
mpweiher超过 8 年前
In other breaking news: water wet.
评论 #12429949 未加载
jdimov10超过 8 年前
Oh, and other countries&#x27; intelligence services would never think of violating any laws, heaven forbid...<p>You know how your government keeps convincing you of the supremacy of the &quot;rule of law&quot; and how &quot;nobody is above the law&quot;, etc., etc... I think it&#x27;s beyond obvious to anyone with half a brain that these are boogie-monster fairy tales.<p>When most people speak of law, what they mean is &quot;rules that everyone must follow&quot;. When the lawmakers speak of law, they mean &quot;rules we&#x27;ve been told to make everyone follow&quot;. Of course, the people and entities that these laws come from are above the law almost by definition. The amount of hypocrisy surrounding &quot;justice&quot; systems around the world is tremendous - it has always been. But people mostly like it this way - it&#x27;s worked for a few thousands of years and is likely to work for a few thousand more.
评论 #12430001 未加载
评论 #12429976 未加载
评论 #12429895 未加载