Drinking Your Way Up the Ladder

This is pretty interesting in light of my hosting Hacker and Founders in Silicon Valley and San Fran (Meetup on thursday if you're interested <a href="http://hackersandfounders.com" rel="nofollow">http://hackersandfounders.com</a> ).<p>We've tried a lot of different formats: coffee shop, lectures and presentations. None of them work for us quite as well as going to a bar and chatting. We've thought a lot about this over the past two years.<p>People instinctively understand that when they go to a bar, they are there to relax and have a good time. A lot of times, people are really stressed out from a long day at work, and would like to have a drink, unwind and chat. People don't tend to unwind in a coffee shop or a restaurant. While I've certainly enjoyed the lobby chat at conferences I've been to, but bar talk with the geeks at hackers and founders tends to be a lot better imho.<p>I'd also say, that the best business relationships that I've developed have involved social alcohol. I grew up in a teetotaler household, and I've made a point of learning how to drink socially and responsibly. Frankly, it requires practice. I think it's actually a pretty valuable social skill to have in the startup world.<p>Final point. We've pretty much standardized on having alcohol at every Hackers and Founders Silicon Valley, and I have yet to see a single person get drunk, or concern me that they were going to be unsafe while driving.

It's amazing the effect a first drinking session make for a new employee. Countless times I've seen the difference after that 'first night out' for new staff - the next day they really are much more accepted into the team, and much less 'the new guy'.<p>If you've recently started somewhere, and feeling a little disconnected from the rest of the team, get down the pub or bar with them and you will definitely notice the difference the next day. It's also true to say the heavier the session the more the bonding.

What a fantastic way to extinguish through overanalysis any joy that might have been had from the simple pleasure going for a quick drink after work. I realise that drinking cultures might vary enormously but I just don't recognise the fraught environment that is being presented here; I have never seen anyone put under pressure for not drinking, and "White wine won't mix with the whiskey crowd"? Really? I like to go out with work colleagues on occasion. I find that if you are going to spend eight hours a day with some people it helps to get to know them personally a little bit, and this in turn eases the working relationship. This doesn't have to be achieved by going to the pub; that's just a social norm. In some cultures a convivial gathering might mean drinking sweet tea and smoking a hookah, but in mine it involves booze.

It seems that socializing over alcohol is the lowest common denominator for after work activities. Personally I would rather socialize over a nice meal or go play some multiplayer games or plan an outing to an airsoft field. But after work, in a metro area, the bars are plenty and accessible.<p>I wish someone taught me the strategy of socializing over drinks. As an introvert, I avoided these kind of events and really didn't get anywhere in terms of progressing through the corporate ranks. Realizing that I needed to change me behavior, I started joining these events. It really is a good opportunity to grease the bureaucratic wheels found in corporation to get things done during the work day. It's a teachable skill.<p>Now my work day really doesn't end when I leave the office. It's "business beers" in the evenings.

I'm a practising Mormon and so don't drink but often hang-out after work with others. My career has been progressing very well in my opinion and not drinking hasn't had an effect as far as I can tell.<p>I think that being it is being sociable with others that helps you move up rather than specifically drinking.

The point that surprised me the most was the study about lower salaries for non-drinkers (-12.8% for men and -25.5% for women). While the study is from 1988 I'm curious how much has changed in the meantime. Although I'm in doubt that the sole reason for this discrepancy is the willingness to drink.<p>Maybe you earn more in the investigated industries if you are an outgoing "people person". And maybe you are more likely to drink if you are outgoing. It's the old causation/correlation thing. But still interesting.

The pub is part of our interview process. Before taking anyone on we take them to lunch and they meet everyone in the office they will work with. It's an opportunity to meet people and see how well they get on. When we get back we have a discussion about the candidate and whether or not we should hire them, if they don't fit in, no hire.<p>I appreciate it's an unfair test and that only the dumbest candidates wouldn't realise that this is part of the interview process but being outside of the office, having an opportunity to talk with the people that you'll work with gives the candidate as much of a view of whether or not they want to work with us as the other way around.

If the mangers can't stand working with someone their going to favour another person who they like to work with and fits their mood and culture. Even if the other person is a better candidate for the position, we don't work in a bubble, the relationships between people are going to play a part.<p>There would be workplaces which work the other way, where people abstaining from alcoholic fueled after work events look more favourable.

Correlation does not equal causation.

There is no ladder.

It seems like this applies to people who want to ascend to upper-management in large companies, where drinking the right drinks and playing the right sports matters.<p>On the other hand, I know a lot of small businesses that have been hit <i>very</i> badly by a partner or early employee with drinking, gambling, or other character issues. They tend to be much less into the alcoholism. Social drinking's one thing, but the "3-martini lunch" is ridiculous. Software isn't like <i>Mad Men</i>.