TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Apple takes stance on consciousness

185 点作者 twalling大约 15 年前

19 条评论

anigbrowl大约 15 年前
Anyone else note the parting observation that if you have accepted the developer agreement you are forbidden from even discussing it in public without Apple's written permission?<p><i>“10.4 Press Releases and Other Publicity. You may not issue any press releases or make any other public statements regarding this Agreement, its terms and conditions, or the relationship of the parties without Apple’s express prior written approval, which may be withheld at Apple’s discretion.”</i><p>As I said yesterday, Apple appears to be pursuing policies that will create a chilling effect on developers. No talk about what tools you used for your app development - anything other than C, C++ or objective C might kill your app. And also, no talk about the license conditions...presumably to include talk about the app store approval process, insofar as it is described in the license agreement. Sure, they won't sue you; but there goes your app store presence if they feel offended by your remarks.<p>That's not a very attractive deal if you ask me.
评论 #1253097 未加载
评论 #1253115 未加载
评论 #1253026 未加载
siculars大约 15 年前
Apple is clearly in the wrong here. I hate to say it but they seem to be turning into the new "Empire".<p>It is as if AT&#38;T said you could only use a certain phone to make phone calls. Or ConEd said you could only use certain appliances with their electricity. Or Intel said you could only use their compiler to write programs that run on their processors. The list is endless.<p>This is an exercise in futility. Apple really needs to give this a rest and relax. Let the market place determine which application experiences are better than others.
评论 #1252645 未加载
评论 #1252730 未加载
评论 #1252692 未加载
评论 #1252664 未加载
vaksel大约 15 年前
Apple lately has been reminding me of what they were supposedly railing about in that 1984 commercial.<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8</a>
评论 #1252809 未加载
mbrubeck大约 15 年前
It's an amusing take, but in practice I think "originally written" is intended to be interpreted just like the GPL's definition of <i>source code</i>:<p><i>"The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it."</i><p>Just like Apple's SDK agreement, the GPL is written this way to prevent developers from claiming an intermediate representation is actually the "source code" when it's actually compiled or generated from the true source.
评论 #1252903 未加载
评论 #1268621 未加载
wallflower大约 15 年前
"Programs that write programs are the happiest programs in the world."<p>-Tom Christiansen a.k.a. thoth, Perl contributor extraordinaire
wrs大约 15 年前
A major portion of almost all iPhone apps is "originally written" in XML -- specifically, the Interface Builder files for the UI and the Core Data schemas. I anticipate a flood of clarification requests to dev support from obsessively detail-oriented programmer/lawyers...
评论 #1252968 未加载
twalling大约 15 年前
One of the most interesting posts I've read so far regarding the whole apple/adobe nonsense.
评论 #1252622 未加载
cobralibre大约 15 年前
There's an implicit Platonism to the author's model of programming. He's an object-oriented programmer, no doubt.
sant0sk1大约 15 年前
&#62; "My programs are originally written in the shower."<p>Mine too!
thaumaturgy大约 15 年前
I'm kinda surprised that nobody here so far has noticed that the author is consistently confusing "written" with "imagined".<p>You might <i>imagine</i> code in your head in some way, but when you <i>write</i> it, you're probably doing so with a specific syntax and structure, in a particular language.
评论 #1252806 未加载
RodgerTheGreat大约 15 年前
From the article- "programs aren’t originally written in any definite language, or in any definite location. Programs are encoded information that is contiguous and continuous with the information in our heads, and in the world."<p>I certainly can't speak for how anyone else codes, but there is a significant difference between the representation in my head before I sit down to code and the structures and algorithms of the compilable implementation. The act of coming up with a solidified idea and typing with syntax are not discrete passes, so I don't think it's inaccurate to say that I've "originally" implemented the program on a computer.
评论 #1252728 未加载
zephjc大约 15 年前
It seems, as others have pointed out, that a big motivator for this change was to prevent, or at least slow down, cross-platform app development.<p>However a loophole exists: if right now you code in Generic Intermediate Language A which translates to an iPhone project in ObjC as well as an Android app project, there is nothing Apple can do (right now(1)) to stop someone writing a program which translates an iPhone project directly to a project for another platform like Android.<p>1) They can obfuscate the project data to make it harder/impossible to parse via some security mechanism, but this leads to a ridiculous arms race.
joecode大约 15 年前
<i>it seems silly for a company like Apple to take a definite position on exactly what “originally written” and “intermediary translation” means</i><p>irregardless of one's opinion about section 3.3.1, there's actually nothing silly at all about apple taking a stance on the interpretation of a legal term. definitions are what makes law and legal agreements work, and you can define things however you please---the important thing is making yourself understood. obviously apple does not intend to outlaw thinking before coding. therefore they have implicitly defined their terms accordingly.
评论 #1254252 未加载
martinpannier大约 15 年前
<i>a mistaken belief that consistent developer tooling means a consistent user experience</i><p>Not necessarily, but inconsistent developer tools rarely lead to better UXs than consistent ones. I don't know about you, but I haven't tried a single Flash-written app on the iPhone which didn't suck. And Apple's recent deletion of below-standards apps shows that they take app quality very seriously and want to set a high standard for the platform.<p>As for the author's stance, it's simply ridiculous!
评论 #1252709 未加载
评论 #1252727 未加载
评论 #1252671 未加载
jheriko大约 15 年前
I completely disagree with whole idea of intellectual property, so from my perspective Apple maybe wrong, but the argument given here against their actions is even "wronger".<p>Apple's actions here can at least be viewed as quality control, and since its their product and their app store etc. its their choice. This is no different to how games console manufacturers refuse to support third party hardware/software, and if you do want to produce software for them you need to most often use their tools and comply with their requirements. Historically this has worked for them very well.<p>The writer also negates to consider the real world difficulty of implementation - having a set of ideas about how something should work is a totally different concept from having a working implementation of a concept - except for that one case where the ideas are sufficiently concrete to describe an implementation in a single language. Translating ideas into C++ or whatever is not trivial so the implementation and the original concept can not realistically be considered the same thing unless it includes all of the implementation considerations as well. In which case there is no valid way to distinguish that set of ideas from the source code - mathematically they are identical descriptions of an algorithm, if they were not then one or other would lack sufficient information. The program would not produce the intended results or the idea would be missing information required to produce the implementation.<p>As a simple example consider the difference between the usual form of the Pythagoras theorem ( h^2 = a^2 + b^2 .: h = sqrt( a^2 + b^2 ) ) and some code to find the hypotenuse of a right triangle from the other two sides - there are lots of issues there that the original theorem has no need to consider, like whether to use floating point representation or fixed point, what square root algorithm to use and what order the operations should be performed in. All of these decisions can have a dramatic impact on the performance and accuracy of the implementation (i.e. produce detectably different results) and some of them may be language dependent, e.g. your language might provide a black box square root function but not specify how it must work, which could be left to the implementation to decide.<p>Even so, do I have ownership of my particular C++ implementation of this? No. Anyone else could have done the same without prior knowledge of my solution - because its already there encoded in the laws of nature waiting to be re-/discovered/ (not /invented/). Invention is a convenient label like "artificial" - it has no counterpart in reality but is a useful abstraction in daily life. But I digress...
评论 #1253377 未加载
natmaster大约 15 年前
Finally something amusing out of Hacker News being turned into Apple News.
Daniel_Newby大约 15 年前
So are storyboards and whiteboard diagrams allowed? UML diagrams? Pseudocode? Parser and state machine generators?
评论 #1253038 未加载
评论 #1253794 未加载
pstinnett大约 15 年前
It's been less than 24 hours since the new agreement was released and I'm already tired of the "programs are initially written in the brain" argument.
评论 #1252733 未加载
jister大约 15 年前
&#62;&#62; What if Ben writes a Flash app, shows it to Amy, who codes it up in Objective-C, compiles it and submits it to Apple? Should it be rejected since it was not “originally written” in Objective-C?<p>Apple doesn't want 3rd party "compilers". That's what those lines in section 3.3.1 means...