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Sorry, Adobe, you screwed yourself

154 点作者 larryrubin大约 15 年前

16 条评论

radley大约 15 年前
What a tool. It's a shame this made it to Techmeme. He really had to twist the facts to make his point. Here's what he didn't say:<p><i>ZDNet 2001</i> (Dec 2001) Article is actually <i>Adobe: OS X's new best friend?</i> "Analysts and creative professionals say that Adobe's release of products for OS X could be the most significant turning point in the new operating system's adoption." "Developers privately complained of stability issues with the original release of OS X, saying that these problems hampered their efforts to move their products to the new operating system. That finally changed in September, when Apple issued the Mac OS X 10.1 update."<p><i>A slice from 2002</i> Article is from March '02: OSX 10.2.1 was established as default OS on Macs only 3 months prior!<p>What he left out: "Adobe is actively working to add support for the full version of Acrobat 5.0 running in OS X native mode." "Adobe currently plans to offer native support for OS X in the next major release of After Effects." etc.<p><i>CNet 2004</i> "At the same time, Apple has quietly pushed Adobe out of a few markets by selling its own applications or bundling them into its OS X operating system. "<p><i>John Nack, 2006</i> (Feb '06) <i>No Intel OS X updated Adobe apps till 07</i> "Ever since Apple's Intel announcement last summer, they've told the industry (at least the consumer side) that Intel Macs would appear by summer 2006."<p>Wikipedia: "On January 10, 2006, the new MacBook Pro and iMac became the first Apple computers to use Intel's Core Duo CPU. By August 7, 2006 Apple had transitioned the entire Mac product line to Intel chips, over 1 year sooner than announced."
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barrkel大约 15 年前
This article is, frankly, childish. Apple was a fading platform when Adobe made that decision, and it made perfect business sense.<p>Until about 2008, the last time I had even <i>seen</i> a Mac on this (Eastern) side of the Atlantic was about 1991 or so.
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pistoriusp大约 15 年前
This explains my disdain for almost everything Adobe on OS X. It's not just that Flash sucks on my Mac. It's that almost all their products suck... They're not focused on OS X.<p>And I'm not the only person: <a href="http://dearadobe.com/top_rated.php" rel="nofollow">http://dearadobe.com/top_rated.php</a>
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n8agrin大约 15 年前
<i>Somehow, Apple making a business decision to protect its customers from your shitty product is the most egregious ethical concern of our time.</i><p>I don't 100% agree with Apple's decision to ban non-native language apps, nor do I 100% disdain Adobe (Lightroom is a phenomenal product IMHO). But my dislike of Flash, the now comical number of bloggers jumping on the "Apple is evil, look at their SDK" bandwagon, and this statement all together made me laugh.
bilbo0s大约 15 年前
You know I think Steve Jobs maybe is doing the right thing for Apple by not allowing all of these cross compilers. I mean, that article really gave me a look at the history that Jobs is talking about when he says these cross-compiler vendors never support Apple as a first class citizen.<p>I don't LIKE it.<p>But I have a better understanding for it now.<p>Adobe, obviously, always wants to target windows first. Companies like Unity and MonoTouch obviously are more in the C# and even .Net camp. These guys are targeting iPhone as an afterthought. And while we know their products do not run well on macs at the moment, I used to think that they would run well on macs in the future.<p>I'm not so sure anymore.<p>Maybe Apple does need to go it alone with respect to middleware. Even better, some enterprising start up could make an Objective-C game engine.
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raysinbran大约 15 年前
Bingo. Apple doesn't ever want to find itself in a position where it has to depend on 3rd party tools keeping up with its OS evolution. If/when Android ends up being the dominant mobile platform, every dev house will likely make a "business decision" to use cross-platform tools. The control point for app innovation would then be in third party hands.<p>And as for losing out on innovation because developers can't make their own tools, I'm sure Apple isn't worried about that at all. They seem to have enough in-house innovation to run circles around what the competition has to offer, for the past ten years.
hristov大约 15 年前
I was wondering how Apple PR would handle this issue, and they are being very clever. They try to frame this purely as a spat between Apple and Adobe. And lets face it, nobody really likes Adobe nowadays because of various issues about cross-compatibility of Flash and their attempts to kill HTML 5. So of course Apple is confident that once the issue is framed as a spat between Apple and Adobe most developers would go on Apple's side.<p>But is that really the main issue? If you think about it, the controversial section of the agreement affects much more important issues that Adobe and flash.
adelevie大约 15 年前
I read posts mentioning "crappy [Flash] ports" to obj-c and protecting "customers from [Adobe's] shitty product". If the port is crappy, then reject it for being crappy, don't reject it because of the tools used to build it.
csomar大约 15 年前
My opinion is that Apple is trying to make its platform as closed as possible. Like that people who want to develop for iPad, needs to buy a Mac, use Apple software development tools, use Apple browser... and Apple takes care of distribution and other things. This is exactly like working for Apple as an employee, but instead of getting paid a fixed salary, you get paid as much as you work and as much as your product sells. So you now know the rules. Either accept and work for Apple, or look for another more open platform (and there are opportunities with Windows Mobile, Symbian, Maemo, Android...)<p>For those who think Apple is in War with Adobe, I highly doubt it. Adobe can shut down their CS suit for Mac. So I just think it's a track and a culture, Apple is taking and working on. If you like it, work with them. If you don't, there are other options in the market; if you don't find anything that suits you in this world, so build a nice world of your own.
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iamelgringo大约 15 年前
Wow, what a dramatic re-interpretation of events.<p>I was using Macs primarily for graphics work in the late 90's and early 00's. The close relationship between Adobe and Apple was <i>the</i> reason to be on the platform then. Graphic designers and creatives were one of the few markets that Apple had left. Believe it or not, but Apple owes a large part of it's existence through the 90's to Adobe's support of their platform. In fact, Apple and Adobe signed an exclusive deal to only ship Photoshop on Mac's in the early years.<p>Steve Jobs left, the company floundered and almost went belly up. They sued Microsoft for patent infringement, and Microsoft settled by investing $150 million in Apple, and becoming one of Apple's largest shareholders at the time. That helped Apple survive, and it gave Microsoft a reasonable competitor, so it wouldn't have to fight as many charges of being monopolistic. Ever wonder why so much Apple advertising punches Microsoft, but Microsoft doesn't really punch back?<p>So, with the second coming of Steve Jobs and a fresh infusion of cash from Microsoft. Apple decided to completely rewite their code base from scratch based on what he had been doing at Next. OS9 died, and OSX was born.<p>And, while those were great moves for Apple as a company, Adobe was faced with a very difficult choice: whether or not to port millions of lines of code over to a new OS that represented less than 3% of the computing market. Apple was making a "bet the farm" move, and expected Adobe to come along for the ride. Then Apple was pissed because Adobe didn't jump on the band wagon immediately and pony up the millions of dollars it would have cost to port their entire suite of apps to the new OS.<p>Three years after the launch of OSX, Apple made another "Bet the farm" move, and decided to migrate OSX from PowerPC chips to Intel processors.<p>Again, not only did Apple expect Adobe and the rest of their developer ecosystem to port their applications to a new OS, but 3 years after the new OS launched, they expected another dramatic round of rewrites to accommodate Apple's business and technical decisions.<p>But, Adobe did begin porting their software, and in the middle of all those changes, Apple chose to start competing directly with Adobe by launching Final Cut Pro at roughly the same time that Adobe was launching Premiere Pro. A year or two following that, Apple purchased Shake a video compositing app that directly competed with After Effects.<p>Needless to say, relations have been a bit strained between the companies for the last 10 years.<p>As far as I've been able to tell, Apple makes decisions that help Apple. They tend to have a "love us or leave us" approach to their developer ecosystem.<p>Microsoft used to play hardball like that all the time with their developers and with companies that ran on their platform. But they got slapped with anti-trust lawsuits. They play much nicer with other kids than Apple does these days. The only reason that Apple can get away with this, is because they are still seen as the "under dog" by many. I suspect that perception might be changing.<p>It's been so strange to hear a lot of arguments coming from Apple fans that Microsoft advocates used to use when defending it's platform decisions. "Why shouldn't Microsoft bundle Internet Explorer with their OS. It's their platform. Screw Netscape. Microsoft can do what they want. It makes for a much better experience"<p>People often ask me why I use Windows 7 as a development platform instead of OSX. My response is usually a joke and a quip "someone beat me with a Mac when I was young". Frankly, it was seeing the history of Apple's treatment of it's developers. Yes, they have great products if want to tow the line and follow Apple's rules. But, beware. When Apple decides to change the rules on you mid stream, you're not going to have much recourse.<p>ref: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple</a> especially <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple#The_Microsoft_deal" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple#The_Microsoft_...</a><p><a href="http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/history/timeline/" rel="nofollow">http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/history/timeline/</a><p>edit: clarity and spelling.
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blue1大约 15 年前
I don't understand. I believe that if you take away the Creative Suite from OS X, the macintosh platform loses its main professional niche. It would be suicidal for Apple to do this. But Apple seems not afraid of this possibility.<p>Maybe is Apple retargeting its line of computers just as development platforms for the portable devices?
jpcx01大约 15 年前
I blame Adobe in part for 3.3.1. I just hate the fact that good developers have to suffer in the aftermath of this useless battle. Why couldn't Apple just say succinctly in the TOS... "ADOBE AINT WELCOME HERE NO MO".
larryrubin大约 15 年前
The plot thickens...
chanux大约 15 年前
Go Apple! Go take the revenge!!.
noamsml大约 15 年前
What sort of fucking joke is this? Saying that some sort of karma game should determine developers' freedom to use the tools necessary for the job? That not supporting a certain platform merits an artificial limitation on the platform?<p>Please.
wrinklz大约 15 年前
Finally a balanced analysis of the iPad developer agreement. Screw you, Adobe!