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Axial stack battery design could unlock the era of supersonic electric airliners

86 点作者 adius超过 8 年前

13 条评论

WalterBright超过 8 年前
&gt; But the airline industry is still roughly as slow, and noisy, and expensive, and inefficient and dirty as it has been for the last 40 years<p>This is not true. Dramatic gains in fuel efficiency have been made. Such gains are the primary driver of new airliner designs. The 757, for example, had (if I recall correctly) 35% more efficient engines, and a more efficient wing. The 787 has something like another 20% less fuel burn - again, due to better engines, wing shapes and weight reduction.<p>You also don&#x27;t see the black smoke trail anymore that was normal for the 707. The engines are much cleaner.<p>There is a limit to how far this can be pushed, but Boeing and the engine makers have done an amazing job in improving the situation.
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anexprogrammer超过 8 年前
This proposal seems to ignore so much.<p>Like the intense friction, and heating, supersonic flight produces. Concorde&#x27;s service speed was limited by heat limits place on the aluminium alloy to ensure a decent service life. They were always white as that was part of the spec - dark colours would have taken heat absorption out of limit!<p>Wing roots varied by &gt;100C each flight if I remember right, and <i>fuel was used as a heat sink.</i> Are we going to use the batteries?<p>If the outer surfaces are conductors, what are we doing about icing conditions?<p>Concorde, or likely most SST, engines put out a <i>lot</i> of thrust in a very fighter-like profile (they were a continuation of a fighter engine, and had reheat). Electric fans aren&#x27;t going to work efficiently in that profile and would probably be large diameter, which isn&#x27;t very supersonic friendly.<p>How are we now handling taxiing and subsonic? Edit: To expand the last point, Concordes were horribly inefficient subsonic, and burnt something like 2t of fuel to get to the runway. Reheat was used at takeoff and going transonic. They pumped tonnes of fuel after reaching supersonic - for weight and balance and reduced drag. They were basically really big fighters.
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nickff超过 8 年前
This &#x27;proposal&#x27; seems to assume that the rest of the aircraft would be almost unaffected by the change, which is very unlikely.<p>Existing engines are designed to compress air, combust fuel, and recover energy from the exhaust to push air (to propel the aircraft) then compress more (to keep the cycle going). Once you are no longer combusting fuel, all of that compression is simply wasted energy. An electric aircraft is much more likely to have single-stage axial fans, with a much larger diameter than jets like the Concorde (because larger and slower fans are more efficient). This difference in propulsion will probably affect various other elements of airframe design.<p>As an aside, Elon Musk has mentioned VTOL as a possible feature of electric aircraft, and this makes a lot of sense. If the fans can be tilted (to provide part of the &#x27;lift&#x27; for takeoffs and landings), it means that the airplane could have very small wings, which are usually good for efficiency, but cause problems while landing conventionally.
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bArray超过 8 年前
I had to squint to look at the images on that site. The designs may or may not be a good idea, but if we can&#x27;t read them then it doesn&#x27;t matter. Bit of a poor show from whoever published the article.<p>Looking at the accompanying text, there are some problems with his ideas. Some of that &quot;supporting&quot; material is also about fail-safe design and heat distribution. A copper plate running through the middle of a battery will draw the heat out nicely. These batteries are all good and well until they fail, at which point you have a huge problem. With fuel, you can dump it. What do you do with you battery wing?<p>One of the massive problems is energy density, but that&#x27;s not the only problem. With the batteries embedded into the wings, you need you to figure out how to effectively charge them too. Planes can&#x27;t afford to sit for hours on the ground between flights and swapping wings over is not going to fly with safety regulations very well.<p>The intentions are good but I&#x27;m not convinced there is something viable here.
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PaulHoule超过 8 年前
Too dangerous.<p>If the wing got smacked up a little and got bent, thus the positive and negative surfaces touch, you would have a massive short circuit, then heat-up and very possibly ignition of the electrolyte with a fire that is worse than a jet fuel fire.
Animats超过 8 年前
Not a better battery, just one with slightly less packaging. That&#x27;s nowhere near enough for aircraft.<p>&quot;Breakthrough&quot; articles in the battery and &quot;nanotechnology&quot; (usually surface chemistry) fields need to be viewed with extreme skepticism. Those two fields seem to generate a high fraction of overhyped &quot;breakthroughs&quot;.
myself248超过 8 年前
I can&#x27;t imagine how this would deal with damage. A large amount of Tesla&#x27;s safety comes from each cell having a micro-fuse connecting it to the module bus, so a failed cell simply disconnects itself. Large single battery plates might be lower-resistance, but they&#x27;d be incredibly susceptible to damage.
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jpm_sd超过 8 年前
This is unbelievably stupid. (1) Supersonic airplanes get incredibly hot, just by flying. Largest battery fire the world has ever seen? (2) It would be impossible to manufacture. (3) It would be too heavy to fly.
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lj3超过 8 年前
Luke Workman. Why am I not surprised to see that guy&#x27;s name in this article? He took Zero Motorcycles from a battery pack that only went 40 miles to one that goes 120 miles while making the battery pack physically smaller. His work never ceases to amaze.
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dogma1138超过 8 年前
Luke Workman is &quot;some guy&quot; who works for zero motorcycles and hack&#x27;s EV&#x27;s together.<p>&quot;Some guy&quot; is the best description I could come with because he isn&#x27;t a scientists&#x2F;researcher, he hasn&#x27;t published a single paper, I can&#x27;t find even a trace of his record as far as education or engineering achievements go besides soldering a couple of batteries and putting them in a motorcycle.<p>All records I could find of him and his company are pretty much from News Atlas (their sources and references link to their own articles) or it&#x27;s affiliates.
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digerata超过 8 年前
Wings flex while in flight. Either the cells need to handle that stress or the wing needs to be super rigid. Neither is particularly easy to achieve.
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kldavis4超过 8 年前
The article mentions grid level power storage but I don&#x27;t see any comments around that. What would the feasibility of creating one of these batteries as some kind of fixed structure be?
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jsprogrammer超过 8 年前
What if the battery terminal&#x2F;wing is hit by lightning?
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