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Ask HN: How do you get people to use your product when you suck at networking?

280 点作者 ziggystardust超过 8 年前
TL;DR: Built a simple web app product, can&#x27;t get it off the ground. Help!<p>To give context to this question, allow me to explain my situation.<p>I have been working as a freelance developer for a few years now and at times the work load gets a little difficult to handle. That&#x27;s when I hop on to websites like freelancer.com and upwork to find a few other freelancers to help me out. The results have been really bad, bad quality developers at extreme rates cause they have have paid accounts.<p>Somehow, on multiple occasions I&#x27;ve managed to find skilled and in-budget developers on craigslist. I presume this is because of craigslist&#x27;s dead simple methodology and lack of rating systems or paid accounts.<p>Taking this into consideration, I built a little web app called FreelanceList.in (http:&#x2F;&#x2F;freelancelist.in&#x2F; still in beta.. or alpha-ish) thats follows the craigslist philosophy but focuses on freelancers.<p>Now the current situation is that I&#x27;m not able to get freelancelist.in off the ground! I&#x27;m good at building products with a team but have no experience with branding or promotions.<p>The projects I work on as a freelancer usually have an active audience or a good brand value hence, I have no idea about launching this off the ground.<p>What do you think should be the next step ? While you&#x27;re at it, please leave a feedback too :) Thank you!

35 条评论

hluska超过 8 年前
I have some feedback for you.<p>First, your business has to solve a very intense chicken or the egg problem. Quality freelancers will not join until there are good projects. And you won&#x27;t get good projects until you have quality freelancers. In freelancing, the problem is even more difficult to solve as both sides of the exchange require quite a large investment in time. Listing yourself as a freelancer (and building a high quality listing) takes work. And listing a project also takes work. This is an obscenely difficult problem to solve and networking alone will not get you there.<p>Second, you decided to enter a market with a ton of competition. Your competitors range from the simple but effective (Craiglist) to the complicated but mostly useless. People who list projects are wise to the game - they know that most sites deliver shit. And freelancers are also wise. Whenever I&#x27;ve joined a freelancer website, I&#x27;ve been inundated with &#x27;offers&#x27; to do 200 hours of work for $500 USD. How do you provide better value to both sides of the market?<p>Third, your website is quite bad. If I just navigated there by chance, I&#x27;d have no idea what I was even looking at. Much less would I have any idea what to actually do. Your language and choice of words betray a serious lack of professionalism. Work on your copy a touch and maybe find someone to read it over - preferably someone who will tell you the unvarnished truth.<p>Consider:<p>&quot;Due to some amount of trolling on the site, filters to be implemented and the site will be cleaned up within the next 24 hours.&quot;<p>That&#x27;s not only a grammatical nightmare, but you&#x27;re coming right out and telling people not to trust you!<p>Or, consider &quot;no bullshit listings for freelancers.&quot; At best, that&#x27;s an extremely unprofessional attempt to sound edgy and hip.<p>Good luck with this!! You seem like a good person and I&#x27;d love to see you fix this (badly broken) business.
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emson超过 8 年前
At the end of the day it boils down to consistently making content and publishing it in multiple channels. Read Content Machine by Dan North and Authority by Nathan Barry. Both books give you really good insight into how to make &quot;sticky&quot; content. You will need to write articles on Medium.com and answer Quora.com questions - each piece should reference each other creating a web that drives traffic back to your central brand website. Look at the Garry Vaynerchuck course on Udemy, he describes how to use the various social media channels to build a personal brand. My website has been tracking how well his course has been performing <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coursenut.com&#x2F;courses&#x2F;udemy-building-a-personal-brand-by-gary-vaynerchuk" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.coursenut.com&#x2F;courses&#x2F;udemy-building-a-personal-b...</a><p>Finally host your own landing page, stick Google analytics on it, and track how your visitors behave with Inspectlet.com and experiment with A&#x2F;B tests (split tests). If you want to learn how to do this on AWS check out my course and I&#x27;ll throw in a coupon and save 70% <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.udemy.com&#x2F;go-landing-pages&#x2F;?couponCode=HACKERNEWS10" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.udemy.com&#x2F;go-landing-pages&#x2F;?couponCode=HACKERNEW...</a><p>Many thanks and good luck!
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zerognowl超过 8 年前
I start products with marketing as the base, that way when it comes to launch day, I have everything I need to start spreading the word about it. So many developers do their launch in reverse; they build their product, and then marketing is left as an afterthought.<p>So get your Producthunt invite, build some Karma on Hackernews, share useful links on Twitter and gain a following. Create Facebook pages, write tutorials for your product, do Reddit AMAs, do Reddit selfposts, etc<p>Try to add value as much as possible. All the best marketers I know are doing Youtube screencasts for free and showing their prospects that the company has a genuine passion for the product(s).
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gt2超过 8 年前
&quot;Do things that don&#x27;t scale&quot; comes to mind. <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;paulgraham.com&#x2F;ds.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;paulgraham.com&#x2F;ds.html</a><p>You eventually want a product that users come to on their own, but in the beginning, you could talk to users on both sides to get them to come to the table. If you are interested in the space, this should come easy!<p>For instance, talk to people who want apps and sites created. Formulate their requirements into really great, attractive, clear posts on the job board. Give them logins to your site so that they can see the post. Now you have real users, and real job listings.<p>Now &quot;advertise&quot; the job listings, and&#x2F;or your site in general with freelancers (tweeting the jobs, tweeting at freelancers, announcements with popular hashtags, telling your freelancer friends about the new site, etc etc). As others have said, when there are job listings, the freelancers will stick after their first click when they see there are listings.<p>Get feedback from both sides. I think the freelancers will be more able&#x2F;willing to communicate electronically their feedback, and you will already be in touch with some people who had apps&#x2F;site projects, so you can get feedback from some of them directly. Rinse and repeat many times.<p>I do think the existing freelancer sites need improvement in the personal touch area, so I think it&#x27;s totally possible for you to compete, and even a major advantage to you in the beginning stages since I think success will hinge upon you doing things like this, which don&#x27;t scale.<p>Good luck, please post a follow up to let us know how it goes!
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jeffmould超过 8 年前
Several things:<p>(1) Your real market is the people&#x2F;companies seeking to hire freelancers. You need to focus the site on that. Once you start having jobs listed, the freelancers will come. Otherwise, as a freelancer there is no real reason to join unless you offering some other benefit. (2) It&#x27;s fine if you only want to have freelancers from Mumbai or Bangalore, but if you want listings you need to open that up to more than just those to locations. (3) Change the Title of the page &quot;No bullshit Listings for Freelancers&quot; really doesn&#x27;t sound professional and if you are targeting people&#x2F;companies seeking to hire, may be a turn-off. (4) Create a landing page that tells what and why. I understand you want &quot;simple&quot; but at the same time you need to explain what&#x2F;why&#x2F;how.
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robertelder超过 8 年前
From the YC lecture series:<p>Lecture 4 - Building Product, Talking to Users, and Growing (Adora Cheung)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=yP176MBG9Tk" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=yP176MBG9Tk</a>
dasmoth超过 8 年前
Note that your site currently doesn&#x27;t work in Safari (desktop or mobile). A quick glance at the error console shows that you&#x27;re using the Fetch API [1]. Polyfills are available.<p>Have you tried running any adverts? Ultimately, I suspect it comes down to either running a marketing campaign yourself or networking enough to find someone else who&#x27;s prepared to handle that side.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;caniuse.com&#x2F;#search=fetch" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;caniuse.com&#x2F;#search=fetch</a>
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qwrusz超过 8 年前
I think your title simplifies your issue to the extent it&#x27;s difficult to answer.<p>#1 Is your product aimed at freelancers like yourself as you describe, for when &quot;work load gets a little difficult to handle&quot; and these busy freelancers are looking for &quot;other freelancers to help&quot; do some of the heavy lifting, but you (busy freelancer) remain the point person between the client on an already established project?<p>Or<p>#2 Is your product aimed at <i>everyone</i> i.e. competing directly with freelancer.com and upwork.com where you are trying to: (a) get a market of clients to post their project needing a freelancer and (b) have a community of freelancers for clients to hire from?... With your revenue being some version of taking a small cut per job.<p>I realize your site is pre-beta and not finished. But knowing the actual goal here helps provide feedback and better advice for next steps.<p>Side note: How to get people to use _______ (fill in blank) when you suck at networking has very different answers depending on what the product is. Sucking at networking is rarely the main issue. I suck&#x2F;don&#x27;t enjoy networking but it turns out it only gets you started, other kinetic factors take over quickly (word of mouth by clients is an example).
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Kiro超过 8 年前
Ads. Seriously. Say what you want about ads but they have helped me gain traction on both my games and my products. Only enough to get the word of mouth moving and after that it usually sorts it out itself.
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nnq超过 8 年前
Q: How do you get people to use your product when you suck at networking?<p>A: Ask this question on HN mentioning your product!<p>Damn... you&#x27;re good!
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spyckie2超过 8 年前
You are not at the branding and promotions stage - you are at the UX and user studies stage.<p>Your user experience is ... void of any considerations for your user. No way to search for a particular set of projects, no way to see potential matches, no way to see how old a particular request is, no way to unselect a city, etc.<p>I would strongly recommend you avoid marketing and promotions until you have iterated several times on real user feedback. Your current product will most likely leak users so you&#x27;ll just be wasting money.<p>Don&#x27;t try to get user testing through marketing - that&#x27;s super inefficient. Just pay people directly to use your product and give you some real world feedback. Much faster, cost effective, and easier to do.
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jstanley超过 8 年前
I tried to list myself on your site but the only options for city are Mumbai and Bangalore. I guess I could just pick the closest, but it&#x27;s still 4,500 miles...
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gm-conspiracy超过 8 年前
Why don&#x27;t you ask the developers that you have used off of craigslist what would make them want to sign up?<p>They are your target market, no?
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ziggystardust超过 8 年前
Just in case anyone is interested and wants to collaborate, This project is open sourced at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Obsessive&#x2F;FreelanceList.in" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Obsessive&#x2F;FreelanceList.in</a>
snarf21超过 8 年前
It seems like you built a product that you want. You&#x27;ve made the assumption that people other than you don&#x27;t like using freelancer.com or CL. To me it doesn&#x27;t make sense to try to make a product like this without first having several people tell you why they agree with you (that the status quo isn&#x27;t good enough) and what they want different and are ready to use your beta when it is ready. Then use it yourself to handle your overflow. If that works well for people looking it may generate organic growth. But as others have said, use reddit etc. to keep getting more people to try your product and give you feedback.
karmicthreat超过 8 年前
I&#x27;m going to get downvoted for this, but make some fake content. Projects users can bid on, but will never win. If real projects get put up, manually try to get developers interested in bidding on it and into your system.
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Gustomaximus超过 8 年前
I&#x27;ve experienced the same with Upwork&#x2F;freelancer. Rating systems seem really broken too on Upwork especially. They&#x27;re either game-able or the platform must like to inflate ratings rather. And I&#x27;ve tried cheap vs expensive and there seems to be no relationship to quality as you pay more.<p>It&#x27;s really frustrating as I know there must be really good guys out there but I suspect they establish 121 relationships quickly and move off a platform clipping their earnings. Or some guys start well for some jobs and then you can see they farm off work and the quality goes to hell.<p>I&#x27;ve considered this problem myself. The best solution I can think of is for a platform with physical offices in likely cities for cheaper devs. People work for an &#x27;in-house&#x27; projects a known project manager that has high QA standards, and after X time proving them-self they get clearance to &#x27;freelance&#x27; from where-ever and bid for projects independently. Or simply not allowed on the platform.<p>It would come at a cost of human management, but I imagine many would pay a premium for known quality. And given the amount of freelancer to jobs ratio there seems room to cull lower performers and maintain a stable of quality devs. I guess it would be something between Toptal and Freelancer....<p>Feel free to steal it. I really need something like this.
danellis超过 8 年前
The easiest way to get there quickly is probably to partner with someone who <i>is</i> good at networking. If you&#x27;re on your own, that brings a lot of other benefits, too.
mmcconnell1618超过 8 年前
Who is the target audience for your product? Where do they hang out? Who are the influencers in their communities? Talk to your target users and get feedback. If the product is a really great product&#x2F;market fit then you don&#x27;t need to network to get users. You need to make sure your product is solving a need for someone and then find ways to let them know about it.
moron4hire超过 8 年前
I have found advertising online to be a full time job, one I&#x27;m not willing to perform, when development is also a full time job. I&#x27;ve gotten much better mileage out of attending meetups, getting to know people, and eventually doing talks.<p>I know you said you are bad at networking, but the market doesn&#x27;t care. You&#x27;ll have to choose: either waste your time for basically zero response advertising online, or learn how to get over or hide your personal issues long enough to make networking work.<p>I didn&#x27;t used to like it, either. I have very strong opinions about modern corporate culture (emphasis on the &quot;cult&quot;), that it grates me raw to see so many other people aspire to such hell. I had to learn to just keep my mouth shut, avoid the instant gratification of telling someone they were wrong to avoid turning then off of me so I could focus on my long term goal of building my business.
kardashian007超过 8 年前
TL;DR: mostly pull but with appropriate application of hustling<p>Networking isn&#x27;t scalable unless you have something industry&#x2F;domain specific and can reach influencers (top bloggers, users, etc.). It&#x27;s probably better to work on appealing SEO, design and succint message in a way which automatically sells potential customers on its value. Let the product sell itself 24x7 so you don&#x27;t have to do as much work. Then, once profit is coming in, think about a sales team and hustling others whom don&#x27;t&#x2F;won&#x27;t self-discover. At the beginning, focus on schelping to solve real&#x2F;hard problems, providing fanatical support to early customers and other things that don&#x27;t scale; and eventually make the product experience so compelling they voluntarily spread the word as well.
ccvannorman超过 8 年前
For advice, do whatever you can to build a small community of dedicated users (like I could be for example.)<p>I went to the site and it was blank. Pressed refresh and took too long to load. I would never return to this site under normal circumstances, but since you made a case for yourself here I&#x27;ll check it out another time -- if it&#x27;s slow then I&#x27;d probably never go back. Use amazon to auto-scale your instances if you get too much traffic, or .. well really do whatever you can because a slow website will kill your business.<p>I am a startup with limited capital who needs competent freelancers, your site seems apt. Hope it works when I visit it next time.
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davycro超过 8 年前
Make a great product. Know your audience. If they try it and don&#x27;t use it then the product is bad. You don&#x27;t have a marketing problem. You have a product problem.
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free2rhyme214超过 8 年前
This isn&#x27;t very compelling. I recommend solving different problems. (I hope I&#x27;m not harsh, I&#x27;m just trying to be honest)
mapster超过 8 年前
Like you said, freelancers are both job seekers and providers. Get on freelancer&#x27;s radar. Can you make a series of videos of you giving a talk about the broken freelancer market and what you are doing about it? UpWork brought ppl over by closing elances doors. You have nothing. Start a movement.
sporkologist超过 8 年前
You have an extremely tough sell there. It sounds like you&#x27;re trying to get in on a commodity product, without the sales chops. you may want to continue working for someone else -- that&#x27;s not a bad thing, it just sounds like where you will be better off.
caseymarquis超过 8 年前
Worth Reading: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation-ebook&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B004J4XGN6" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous...</a>
jminkler超过 8 年前
Seems like sort of had been done before (and failed?) <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.assemblymade.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.assemblymade.com&#x2F;</a> unless I misunderstand?
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ekpyrotic超过 8 年前
1. Networking is actually a very bad way to secure initial customers. It is very unlikely that you are going to find yourself in a room with your target customers. You&#x27;ll end up wasting time and energy on people who are never going to use your product.<p>2. Develop a persona for your target customer. Make it tangible so you can imagine your end-user. Imagine how they go about their days. What their interest are; what their hobbies are. What they do in the morning; what they do at night. Their fears and challenges. What is the challenge that your product is solving for these people?<p>3. Now, you should have a sense of who you want to reach. It might be quite a broad category... &#x27;Heads of Business Development in start-ups&#x27;, &#x27;Design freelancers on PeoplePerHour&#x27;. At this point you should be in a position to think about where you might be able to find lists of these people. Go niche, so you don&#x27;t overreach. It&#x27;s easy to capture a small market than a big one. Start small, and grow to new markets. Maybe, if you&#x27;re building a freelancer website, it&#x27;ll mean dialing down your target market to &#x27;design freelancers in Aspen&#x27;. Try to find a directory of people online that meet this category.<p>4. Create a database of all these people. Only start with 100. It should have their names, companies, email addresses, and a notes column. Fill all this data in. This is a list of potential early adopters.<p>5. Draft these people a short, targeted email laying out in CLEAR and DIRECT language your valuable proposition. &#x27;I spotted your were a design freelancer in Aspen. I&#x27;m building... I thought you might be interested because... Is this something you might want to use?&#x27; Follow up a week later with an even shorter note for people that didn&#x27;t reply. RESPECT their details. Don&#x27;t spam them. This is a PERSONALISED message.<p>6. You will receive two responses (a) &#x27;yes&#x27; -- that&#x27;s great, you have an early adopter; track their use of the service and value them; (b) &#x27;no&#x27; -- that&#x27;s even better, ask them why they don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s a good fit for them; ask them for feedback; why isn&#x27;t it attractive; what would make it attractive?<p>7. Fill in your database with all these responses. After you have 20-50 responses, you have some important intelligence about whether you have built a product which ACTUALLY solves a market problem (i.e., you have market fit); if not, pivot -- build a product that responds to these people&#x27;s feedback.<p>8. Rinse and repeat.<p>Sorry for the plug... people have told me that the most time consuming bit of this process is finding these people and their emails. That&#x27;s why I built Find Emails Team. You can find it here: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;findemailsteam.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;findemailsteam.com</a>. For a few dollars, we can put a manual team to work to find these contact details for you.<p>Best of luck!
musgrove超过 8 年前
Hire somebody who doesn&#x27;t suck. Get some social proof from reputable spokespeople.
known超过 8 年前
Forward you app to your alumni
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artur_makly超过 8 年前
check out growthHackers.com - its a forum specially devoted to your predicament.
swiftisthebest超过 8 年前
There&#x27;s a ton of competition. Try something else.
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rublev超过 8 年前
Get good at networking. It seems like you decided that you&#x27;re already bad at it. You got good at programming and it took time right? You&#x27;re not going to get good at networking casually just as much as a &#x27;biz guy&#x27; is not going to get casually good at programming enough to launch a product.
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justinlardinois超过 8 年前
So you&#x27;re a freelancer, and your aim is to build a platform for freelancers.<p>What immediately comes to my mind is Justin.tv. It was originally just a website featuring one guy constantly livestreaming his life via a camera on his hat. Eventually it became a livestreaming platform and gave birth to what&#x27;s now Twitch.<p>I&#x27;ve read a few comments in this thread to the effect of &quot;develop a personal brand,&quot; and I think that&#x27;s exactly what you need to do. Firmly establish yourself as a high-quality, in-demand freelancer, and then transition towards forming a network of freelancers. Maybe initially it&#x27;ll only be people you&#x27;ve directly worked with whose quality you can personally vouch for. Once you show you can provide quality talent and have drawn in clients, <i>then</i> you can start opening up your platform to more freelancers.<p>I&#x27;ll note that I don&#x27;t have much entrepreneurial experience, so take my advice with a grain of salt.