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Bernie Sanders: Where the Democrats Go from Here

116 点作者 baptou12超过 8 年前

16 条评论

fowlerpower超过 8 年前
I think we need a post mortem in the Democratic Party.<p>Look I supported Hilary but there were so many things that went wrong. Let&#x27;s talk about the fact that we suppressed our own vote. Emails came out that the party wanted Hilary to win at all costs enough to sabotage Sanders. Well that sort of thing doesn&#x27;t help anyone, because a candidate not picked by the people will loose. Trump may have been someone that the party despised but he won the vote, they did not push him out. There are so many other things that we did wrong, why wasn&#x27;t Elizabeth Warren in this? I know because the party wanted Hilary to win it.<p>There are many other things that can go into this post mortem. I&#x27;ve come to grips with the fact that we lost and I&#x27;m looking ahead at what we can do next time.
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kogus超过 8 年前
I like and respect Bernie Sanders a lot, but I can&#x27;t help but feel that he&#x27;s deliberately interpreting Trump&#x27;s victory in a way that vindicates his own beliefs.<p>I somehow manage to be both amused and disgusted as I watch the media contort itself trying to explain Trump supporters as idiot racist protest voters. Their heads simply cannot contain the idea that many of his ideas have legitimate affirmative support among a near-majority of clear minded individuals.<p>Occam&#x27;s razor is helpful here; people voted for Trump because they supported Trump. As a country we kind of have to get over that.<p>Large parts of the country want to take a dramatically different direction on economic issues from immigration to trade policy, and they voted for the candidate that represented their wishes.<p>For the record, I think both candidates were catastrophes waiting to happen (albeit in different ways). I voted libertarian.
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pmontra超过 8 年前
Clinton got some 5 million votes less than Obama 2012 and 10 million less than Obama 2008. Trump got less votes than Romney 2012 but more than McCain 2008. An average performance was enough to win because Clinton wasn&#x27;t able to get the Democratic Party electors to vote.<p>Check the summaries at<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_States_presidential_election,_2016" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_States_presidential_ele...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_States_presidential_election,_2012" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_States_presidential_ele...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_States_presidential_election,_2008" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_States_presidential_ele...</a><p>and continue to look at the trends.
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itgoon超过 8 年前
Both the RNC and DNC are screwed. Yes, the Republican candidate won (and brought a lot of senators with him), but he isn&#x27;t &quot;their man&quot;.<p>Both establishments put up their chosen people, and both establishments lost.<p>They&#x27;ve grown too insular, too much about the being &quot;True Conservatives&#x2F;Progressives&quot;, and less about representing people. Who are they to decide what we believe?
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throw_away_777超过 8 年前
The democratic party really needs to start prioritizing the needs of working class Americans. Too many policies clearly benefit corporations and the rich, at the expense of workers. Obama has been a huge disappointment, he talked of hope and change but delivered more of the same. Democrats also need to prioritize the needs of America over the rest of the world. Whatever else you say about Trump, it is clear that he puts Americans first.
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ausjke超过 8 年前
Just fix one thing: hypocrisy<p>Just do what you say, for example, _GIVE_ your college seat to others who has a different skin color or whatever though their GPA is only 40% of yours, instead of just saying you&#x27;re for AA but you took no actual meaningful action. Just _Moving_ to the neighborhood that you want to help directly and do not buy house in a conservative district then saying you&#x27;re welcoming lots of section8 house nearby, that&#x27;s just not good enough. Also let your employer know that you can _GIVE_ your chance to those who have a difference skin color but not as experienced as you. And _DONATE_ 20% of your after-tax income to help those in-need instead of asking the federal to print more money for food-stamps. Last but not least, just _PAY_ more premium out of your pocket so others can get a basically free-ride for medical care, etc,etc.<p>Just _DO_ it instead of say it, the one who benefited because your generous _actual_action_ will speak to others, so you can safely save the ideology part and let them speak for you, just DO what you want to say, instead of keeping saying it and expect others to do it for you and you feel good about saying those words.<p>If Democrats DO what they say, all issues will be fixed quickly.
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Tistel超过 8 年前
No ones likes Trump. Its just that people dislike Clinton more. The DNC fielded a toxic loser that everyone outside of Manhattan and LA could smell from a mile away. Look into the Clinton Foundation, they are cartoonishly corrupt <i>and</i> bad at hiding it. Trump made a lot of promises (like all politicians do) and will most likely come up short on all of them. Look to the future. The US will be fine, you guys have been through worse.
Ericson2314超过 8 年前
Of course, larger macro economic forces make Trump&#x27;s economic promises very hard to carry out. But his shortlist of candidates for cabinet and other major roles also cast doubts whether his administration will even end up trying.<p>The progressive wing of the democratic party now has more leverage within that party. Furthermore, <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;11&#x2F;13&#x2F;business&#x2F;economy&#x2F;can-trump-save-their-jobs-theyre-counting-on-it.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;11&#x2F;13&#x2F;business&#x2F;economy&#x2F;can-trump...</a> does paint one of the nicest images of Trump voters, implying the Rust Belt voters who most dramatically swung republican vs 2012 and 2008 voted Trump in on a Sandernist mandate.<p>So 2020 could be interesting, but man waiting through 4 more years of gridlock will suck. If it weren&#x27;t for supreme court I&#x27;d love to strike a bargin of &quot;4 years your stuff, 4 years ours&quot;, so we&#x27;d actually run a good policy experiment.
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socialist_coder超过 8 年前
I think part of the issue with Democrats vs Republicans is that the Democrats are basically gerrymandering themselves by clustering in ~10 states.<p>Let me explain: if you are a liberal living in a red state, it sucks. Lots of them move away, and they move to one of the bastions of liberal culture. That person&#x27;s vote is now completely wasted since their state is already &gt; 50% democrat while their original state now has 1 less person able to cast a liberal vote.<p>Not only is it liberals wanting to move out of their conservative hometowns, but it&#x27;s also people moving to the larger cities. Many of those larger cities are in the same liberal states. And people who are willing to move to a big city for a job are probably liberal, or at least politically neutral. Another vote wasted.<p>So you end up with the only people who still want to live in the rural states are just naturally more inclined to vote Republican.<p>Compounding this problem, if a red state has a few cities that are heavily liberal, because of gerrymandering, the democrats have far less congressional representation than they should have. The republican state government sees to that.<p>A crazy idea is that the 50 states would be reorganized, just like congressional districts. Many of the less populated states who share similar values merged together. Like the entire bible belt &#x2F; midwest could just be 2 or 3 mega states. The southeastern states could merge up and be Dixieland or whatever. Boom: less senators, less EC votes, everyone wins!<p>More realistically, we just have to get past the fact that each state has a minimum amount of power in our government. It should be scaled more with population, or the % that the candidate wins by should mean something (so all those wasted votes in heavily liberal states would actually count for something).<p>Ending gerrymandering at the congressional level would also help solve this problem. I hope we see algorithmic districts in the next 10 years.
mark_l_watson超过 8 年前
Democrats need to be like NFL coaches, who scientifically dissect losing games Monday morning.<p>As a life-long democrat, I blame the corruption in the DNC. I base my opinion on reading DNC emails, and favoring international news sources and a few people I trust on the web. In addition to the DNC&#x27;s failings, I have lost almost all faith in US news media.<p>I hope that something positive comes out of this. I look to the future.
woofyman超过 8 年前
1) Stop triangulating 2) Repudiate neoliberalism 3) say what you believe even if it&#x27;s not popular
pitt1980超过 8 年前
There are many types of diversity. Diversity of occupation, diversity of musical taste, diversity of outlook, diversity of residence, and of course varying kinds of racial and ethnic diversity. You could list thousands of kinds of diversity.<p>The original thinking behind the Electoral College was that geographic diversity was important. The Founding Fathers were not majoritarian, but rather they believed in placing special weight on diversity of this kind. The prevailing view was “if too many (geographically) diverse voices veto you, you can’t get elected, not even with a majority of the votes.” That view was a strange and perhaps unlikely precursor of today’s veto rights&#x2F;PC approach on campus, but there you go.<p>Democrats now control at least one legislative house in only 17 states, and the reach of the party is shrinking dramatically. So by the 18th century standards of diversity, emphasizing geography, the Democratic coalition is remarkably non-diverse. You can see how much of Hillary Clinton’s majority came from the two states of New York and California. That also means the Republicans are not just a “Southern rump party,” as some commentators used to suggest.<p>If you think of education as serving a smoothing function, the less educated are in some ways considerably more diverse than the educated.<p>The Democratic Party today is more likely to stress the relevance of ethnic and racial diversity, if the talk is about diversity. (Gender diversity too, but that requires its own post, maybe later to come.) Non-Democrats are more likely to count other forms of diversity for more than the Democrats do. I see Democrats as somewhat concentrated in particular cities and also in particular occupations, more than Republicans are. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is another way in which Democrats are less diverse.<p>When it comes to views about the relevant forms of diversity, the views of non-Democrats are more diverse than the views of Democrats, I would hazard to guess. A non-Democrat is more likely to focus on something other than racial and ethnic diversity, compared to a Democrat.<p>Correctly or not, many Americans do not think racial and ethnic diversity is the diversity that should command so much attention. That is one place to start for understanding why so many 2012 Obama voters switched to Trump this time around, or maybe just stayed home.<p>A few days ago I saw figures that 29 percent of Latinos voted for Trump (possibly that number has been revised). I suspect many of those voters do not see Latino vs. non-Latino as the diversity line that interests them most strongly.<p>I haven’t offered any criticism of the Democratic point of view on diversity, even though you may feel that my description of it is trying to lower its status. (You are right, noting I don’t wish to defend the R. point of view, but the R view does not need as much status-lowering either.) It may well be correct to have a less diverse view of diversity. If you were to start with an argument for that view, you could cite the long history of American slavery and segregation, plus continuing racial wealth inequality, as reasons for focusing so much on one kind of diversity rather than others.<p>Still, when I speak with Democrats, and with Progressives in particular, they view themselves, as a kind of assumption, as the people concerned with diversity. That is a significant cognitive mistake.<p>When Donald Trump was elected President of the United States, it was the forces of diversity — some diversities, many diversities — that won.<p>It was the people less concerned with diversity overall that lost. Again noting that some important notions of diversity do cut the other way, most of all racial diversity. And I do wish to stress that the presumptive argument for “diversity” simply isn’t there, although that conclusion is hard to swallow that if you have imbibed too much contemporary political rhetoric.<p>In fact, I view the amazing diversity of the election and the electorate as having gotten the better of us. It is an example of how diversity can go wrong.<p>I believe that until Democrats and Progressives can grasp their lack of diversity intuitively, they will struggle to make their way forward in the new political climate of the United States. They will not understand how anyone could view them as divisive, since they automatically think of diversity as being on their side, rather than something they oppose.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;marginalrevolution.com&#x2F;marginalrevolution&#x2F;2016&#x2F;11&#x2F;coalition-diversity-whose-diversity-diversity-just-win.html#comments" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;marginalrevolution.com&#x2F;marginalrevolution&#x2F;2016&#x2F;11&#x2F;coa...</a>
socialist_coder超过 8 年前
Why is this flagged? This is a great weekend discussion.
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JoeAltmaier超过 8 年前
tl;dr: Bernie uses this tragedy to toot his own horn
spraak超过 8 年前
Where &#x2F;do&#x2F; they go from here then?
dreta超过 8 年前
Don’t think Trump, or HRC were best choices, but i’d still pick either over Sanders. Sanders presidency would’ve been a disaster to the economy. He would&#x27;ve made starting a business, and employing people even harder than it is now. By rising the minimum wage he would’ve ruined the lower and lower-middle class by the time he’s out of office. Not to mention that Sanders’ gripe with the 1% is more populist than anything Trump or HRC ever said. As soon as he lost to HRC, he bought a 3rd house for $600,000. He sold out to HRC after he got shafted by the DNC. He can talk about the status quo all he wants, but he’s a part of it.
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