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Don't build private clouds

66 点作者 mhausenblas超过 8 年前

15 条评论

anon1253超过 8 年前
Yeah so we have a different story. We build Natural Language Processing and statistics software. We tried the cloud first, but it was just unworkable. Limited IOPS, outrageous prices for even a modest amount of RAM, slow virtualized CPUs, limited GPU options with terrible performance. So one day I hired half a rack, bought some machines with fast SSDs, 128GB RAM each, dual CPU with high clockspeed, and even some boxes with GPUs. The difference was incredible. Not just in performance, which was orders of magnitudes faster (going from barely workable to "pleasant user experience" without any software changes), but also in terms of cost. If we were to provision these machines on Azure or E2 we'd spend in a month what these machines cost, and our current current costs are maybe $500 in electricity + rack rental. Sure, it's a bit of a workout to put stuff in racks, but I actually quite enjoyed doing it. Sure stuff will break and things will go down. We can take the downtime at this point. And seriously, cost and performance wise there is no competition between cloud and rolling your own hardware (if you know how to do it). Also I'm perpetually surprised by how overstated the complexity of this is, yes it's tricky. But so is CSS, and Javascript these days. And unless you go "full cloud" (never go full cloud), you still have to manage fallover/redudancy/CI/provisioning yourself. It's not much different on "actual" hardware (there is no cloud, it's just somebody else's computer). If my firewall or switch catches fire, that might be problematic. But if that happens at an Amazon or Azure data center, that's also problematic. At the very least you'll suffer terrible latency because it needs to move the VMs dynamically.
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Freak_NL超过 8 年前
If you are handling data that is subject to national regulations concerning personal data (e.g., health care) using a cloud provider for all your needs is risky and might not be legal. If you use one of the big-name (and therefore affordable) providers such as Amazon, your data may very well fall under America's Patriot Act — there is a lot of legal uncertainty about this. If I go with a local party instead, there is also no guarantee that this company in turn won't branch out to the US, or get bought up by an American company, again putting citizen's private data in reach of (in my case) foreign governments.
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kkapelon超过 8 年前
The article does not address important topics such as privacy and security.<p>For some organizations using a private cloud is not a technical decision but instead a political&#x2F;ethics one.<p>As an example I would bet that there are several companies out there who would not care if all services were down for a full day (in their private cloud), as long as they were certain that no government could easily access them.
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cyberpunk超过 8 年前
Okay, I wrote out a whole breakdown of everything that&#x27;s wrong with this post, but after I re-read it, it came across as so harsh that I&#x27;ve just deleted the lot.<p>TBH; the only people who would have agreed with me knew my points anyway so bother?<p>I felt like as this is my specific area, that I have a kind of responsibility to people who read misinformation like this to help see through such stuff. It&#x27;s hard to do for me without getting kind of angry though; opinions like this is why I end up having to deal with 800k&#x2F;month aws bills and 3 hour deploys..<p>Either way; regardles of me -- please, people -- if you think that the &#x27;typical journey&#x27; of implementing your own infrastructure and migrating a legacy application to run on it is <i>ANYTHING</i> like the description in this blog post, then please take it from me as someone who moves horrible legacy codebases into CD for a living, that you should perhaps seek some alternative advice.<p>Suubu; I&#x27;m sorry, I&#x27;m not trying to be mean but your typical&#x27; private cloud journey is complete and utter horseshit.
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a_imho超过 8 年前
I don&#x27;t quite agree with the cost analysis. You either spend on building your infrastructure or integrating public cloud services. You will pay your devops team anyway. Owning stuff is usually cheaper than renting, there are many cases when it can make sense to have your own hardware.
snarfy超过 8 年前
&gt; Phase 3: Then deal with the stateful monoliths. These are your large monolithic databases. This is usually where private cloud journey hits the wall due to the risk and complexity in making such monoliths cloud native.<p>We are tasked with moving to the cloud, and this is where everything stops. Over the years, instead of fixing the monolithic database design, the company instead kept beefing up the hardware for the database. A bigger cpu and more ram is cheaper up front than re-engineering the entire company infrastructure.<p>And now we are paying for it. Our db hardware now is the highest end hardware the db software supports. None of the cloud providers db support can handle it. We are forced to fix the monolithic design if we are to move to the cloud. It will be a multi-year effort.
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micheljansen超过 8 年前
This last point trumps all others:<p>&quot;[...] on-premise infrastructure on the other-hand brews a culture of mistrust, centralization, dependency and control. [...] These difference between on-premise data centers and public clouds influence how teams think, plan and execute. These are nothing but attributes of culture.&quot;<p>I&#x27;m currently working with a large financial services organisation that is moving to the cloud. It&#x27;s incredibly painful, because of all the challenges involved in guaranteeing the safety and security of private data etc., but once these hurdles are taken once, it&#x27;s incredibly liberating. The move is not just a technical one though, it requires a change of culture as well.
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alrs超过 8 年前
Private clouds wouldn&#x27;t be the recurring disaster that they are if the people who built them had used AWS before. Instead of &quot;don&#x27;t build private clouds,&quot; I&#x27;d offer &quot;If you think Openstack means &#x27;free VMWare,&#x27; you&#x27;ve already failed.&quot;
sfifs超过 8 年前
If you store your data with a third party cloud provider, government agencies can legally compel your cloud provider to give them your data while preventing them from telling you. If your data is on-premises, they&#x27;ll have to come and take it from you. If you are a multinational company with entities in multiple geographies and related party transactions, you know what you&#x27;d prefer.
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kitd超过 8 年前
I was musing yesterday whether a technologically-advanced nation state of the future might provide cloud infrastructure like it provides roads&#x2F;rail&#x2F;healthcare&#x2F;etc.<p>Obviously, this only makes sense in a world where individuals as well as corps need to present themselves online as a matter of course, but it might enable eg personal ID or data privacy tools that address many of the problems people have &#x27;donating&#x27; their private data to commercial orgs.
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pasta超过 8 年前
What about privacy? Our company doesn&#x27;t use a cloud provider for that exact reason.
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cyberpunk超过 8 年前
Am I missing something here?<p>Is your point that everyone should move to the public cloud because you think it&#x27;s &quot;difficult&quot; to build a &quot;private&quot; one?<p>Sorry to be blunt, but are you joking, an idiot or just completely unaware of the reality our industry outside of startup land?<p>Forgetting the compliance reasons, or that I have zero confidence that a combination of giant American corporations have any interest in protecting my data and that of my users, forgetting also that the performance differences are incredibly significant (take 8 15k sas&#x27;s in raid 10 vs.. what? EBS with 2k &#x27;provisioned IOPS&#x27; on a shared san over iscsi?), the cost savings are much more significant than you claim here.<p>I recently bought a half rack load of dell boxes which have like 380GB of ram each and 52 threads, and they cost around £4k each.<p>Even with a whole army of overpriced ops dudes to install openstack or kubernetes on all that, the cost we spent would be spanked in a month on AWS for similar capacity, and mine isn&#x27;t a recurring one.<p>Why does it have to be so black and white for you folks?<p>A &quot;private cloud&quot; is absolutely the correct choice for a lot of people. If I were you I&#x27;d quietly delete that post, because I&#x27;ve absolutely judged you -- and probably unfairly -- on the content. On that, I wouldn&#x27;t hire you.<p>Listen, both these things have a place, but they&#x27;re NOT competing in the minds of those of us running serious infra. AWS allows us to prototype apps rapidly, to put project work on a credit card associated with a specific project budget instead of spending the shared budget, and for sure there are some nice services which do a bit of heavy lifting for us which helps speed that up.<p>After that phase though, very, very few people things actually need or make sense to stay there once it becomes a real product. Your scaling concerns are not being well served by 1000s of ec2 instances. Moving back in house is usually the smarter option.<p>If you&#x27;re pumping loads of data into the internet, then you should be behind a CDN and the origin shouldn&#x27;t be smashed to the point where you&#x27;re dependent on throwing compute into the void to cope. Akamai or CloudFlare are cheaper than deploying 100s of ec2&#x27;s because some shitty code can&#x27;t handle your traffic.<p>If data is coming in, read a book on queues; you&#x27;d be pretty surprised what you can do with even two 1U boxes and a good software architecture. We could handle 100k+&#x2F;sec of messages back in the java 1.5 and activemq days with 1U sparc boxes; how much do you recon it costs to do that today in AWS?<p>tl;dr - urgh. lets&#x27; talk in 10 years.<p>&lt;&#x2F;rant&gt;
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whyagaindavid超过 8 年前
We are in the same boat. We tried opencloud and has severe issues with our unified login - mix of AIX,samba,ladp,AD systems. I wonder how to convince universities who have legacy data and staff (aka Prof) who are unwilling to change to cloud especially in these days of data leak. Any pointers?
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jtwaleson超过 8 年前
What is the ratio between public and private cloud data centers is in terms of server count &#x2F; data center count etc?<p>I think the amount of enterprise DC&#x27;s &#x2F; colocation facilities is pretty stable but that almost all of the growth is in public cloud. Don&#x27;t have any data to back this up though.
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Jaruzel超过 8 年前
Can anyone tell me what typeface is being used on this graph?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net&#x2F;max&#x2F;1546&#x2F;1*6rkj6frEx5Bf8_s6sIi_9A.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net&#x2F;max&#x2F;1546&#x2F;1*6rkj6frEx5B...</a>
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