Reboot PHP: keep the philosophy, improve the syntax (PHP on the JVM)

As a long-time PHP developer (12+ years, yuck it up PHP haters) I look at this with a combination of awe and disappointment. Awe that someone would be willing to take on implementing a version of PHP that can run on the JVM much like Quercus. Disappointment because what they are doing is not PHP.<p>If the goal is to recreate the "let's build a better runtime" situation that exists in Ruby but in the PHP world, that is admirable. But if you really want the project to get any sort of traction, creating almost-PHP isn't the way to go.<p>If you can't run your existing PHP code in this thing, then what's the point?

I think this shows a remarkable misunderstanding of what PHP users actually like about PHP:<p>* We like semicolons. The culture who thinks saving this one character is valuable tends toward a non-pragmatic purity that is completely missing the point of PHP. We like to know when the line ends and to break up lines easily.<p>* The $ before all variables is a feature, we like this too. It's jarring coming from other languages but we think it adds readability.<p>* Inline SQL with no special syntax to denote that it is special? This seems way too far off the deep end of preventing an extra character at all costs. Give me a key word or a syntax if you like but don't make it look just like a variable, please.<p>* No from/to string auto-conversion. We like this too. Having the sense to not overload "+" for strings goes a long way here.<p>1 . 1 == "1" . 1 == "1" . "1" == 11 == "11"<p>1 + 1 == "1" + 1 == "1" + "1" == 2 == "2"<p>Yes there are warts and some paradoxes but we deal with it, and we have to be very conscious of what data could be provided by users, but our web apps work fine provided we know the language. (Yes, there are very many PHP programmers who don't.)

I don't think this project is properly leveraging PHP's advantages. PHP code's ability to be run on almost any server with Apache is a big plus, but this project requires a JVM. It's different enough from PHP that the plethora of PHP programmers will need to learn a new language, which is another hurdle. It's not backwards compatible so existing PHP code will need to be rewritten. In fact, it looks very different from PHP except for the intended use of the PHP library, which is one of PHP's weakest points.<p>The project has a lot of great ideas but I don't think branding it as a PHP derivative is one of them.

&#62;This is a reboot of PHP, like the reboot of Star Trek.<p>So it's going to be a cotton-candy superficial take on a language with a deep and active user base that basically ends up making it no different from every other language of the month that people promptly forget about?

Wait, less ';'?<p>The semicolons are only optional in JavaScript if you are okay with being incompetent. Or, well, slowing down your programs a bit and risking errors through ambiguity.<p>The JSON style syntax is nice, PHP really needs that. I'd be pleased to never see or type =&#62; ever again.<p>I have no idea what to think about the rest. Inline SQL? Isn't some heinous mixture of PHP, SQL, JavaScript and XML all in the same file something that normal people would seek to avoid?

It's definitely interesting, but I think they should develop this as a separate language - specialised for the web. Inline HTML, JSON and SQL look excellent but to me this should be developed as a "new" language, so it is not bound by restrictions of trying to look like PHP.

&#62;&#62; less ';' like in javascript<p>You should read the book by Douglas Crockford - JavaScript: The Good Parts, p102 (Appendix A: Awful Parts), this is not fun.

Whoa. I admire the chutzpah, and I definitely think aspects of PHP could use a Star Trek style reboot (albeit with less lens flare), but I also think the proposed syntax here actually makes PHP less clear.<p>My specific issues: As others have commented, fewer semicolons equals potential ambiguity. I'm totally not okay with the inline XML or SQL syntax presented here - clearly demarcated, storage-agnostic code makes me sleep soundly at night. That said, the duck typing and inline JSON structures are neat.

I don't really like the SQL integration. I would prefer an object layer on top of it.<p>Making assumptions about an underlying database is a sure way to get burned when you switch to another. And assuming SQL to be the "official" persistence engine makes it hard to migrate to non-relational platforms in case you want to.

It seems more like JavaScript changing more towards PHP than anything else. If that is the goal, then perhaps nodeJS is the solution.<p>I've been considering using nodeJS for more and more logic as time progresses, but truthfully PHP works 99.9% of the time.

I like my ';' - Even in javascript

If you really want inline XML and SQL, why not have some sort of quoting operator so that this is actually possible to implement sanely?<p>Programming languages designed by PHP programmers... the goggles do nothing.

Awesome. If it had first-class functions I'd be downloading it now.

I'd be curious to hear how PHP devs would contrast this with something like HipHop from Facebook (which requires a specific coding style and some restriction of PHP features).

I wonder if google will ever include PHP into Google App Engine ..

why?