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Internet Archive successfully fends off secret FBI order

187 点作者 emilong超过 8 年前

13 条评论

micaksica超过 8 年前
I&#x27;m curious how many of these &quot;NSL&quot;s actually have anything to do with actual national security investigations, or if they are just defaulted to if there is a politically plausible excuse that it has something to do with national security.<p>For example: NSL used to go after an ISIS propagandist working within the United States and is a US citizen. They&#x27;ve got information he is talking to ISIS&#x2F;ISIL via an NSA intercept. They know who he is, he is pretty well involved and known to be involved in radical Islamic terrorist activities and social circles, to the FBI and others. They NSL to get information with the gag required to not tip off and close up the whole cell or disclose IC practices used against foreign adversaries.<p>However, I can see this case being more likely:<p>US Citizen on Twitter quotes the Qu&#x27;ran a lot, and writes a lot in Arabic. One day they quote a verse that sounds militant, or say something that seems like it may be an indirect frustration with USG, US citizens, or @-replies somebody who is within a couple of degrees of an investigated radical. Some keyword search FBI runs on the Twitter firehose picks this up and an analyst says &quot;eh, this guy looks sketchy.&quot; FBI wants info, doesn&#x27;t want to cycle through the courts, and knows they can NSL and say it&#x27;s &quot;because terrorism&quot;, even though the person in question is more being profiled for something innocuous than they are actively involved in anything radical (i.e. it&#x27;s perfectly legal to be a religious Muslim in the United States.)<p>I&#x27;ve a feeling more often than not this is water taking the path of least resistance, and it&#x27;s easier for special agents to issue these and that&#x27;s why they issue them so often. Unfortunately we only get to see what an NSL looks like, but I&#x27;m curious who the guy is they were going after and what &quot;national security&quot; threat this guy really is or was.
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banashark超过 8 年前
It&#x27;s great that the EFF was able to help them out with this.<p>I don&#x27;t know of any other organizations that would even be able to help out in a situation like this.<p>I donated to the EFF the other day, here is a link for anyone who is interested in financially supporting this type of work: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supporters.eff.org&#x2F;donate&#x2F;power-2016-w" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supporters.eff.org&#x2F;donate&#x2F;power-2016-w</a>
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imh超过 8 年前
&gt;As a result of their fight, the FBI folded, rescinding the NSL and unsealing associated court records rather than risk a ruling that their surveillance orders were illegal.<p>This scares me. I know why we have a legal system that allows this kind of behavior, and those reasons are good, but the few times someone pokes someone with the resources to fight back, they get to say &quot;nevermind!&quot; instead of it being ruled that they can&#x27;t go around poking people like that? Then they keep going around hurting everyone else. It&#x27;s a terrible state of things that systemically leads to bad behavior, but I can&#x27;t think of a better system :(
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joering2超过 8 年前
<i>As a result of their fight, the FBI folded, rescinding the NSL and unsealing associated court records rather than risk a ruling that their surveillance orders were illegal.</i><p>This part angers me the most. So basically it was a bluff. Either that or if this was serious than FBI is reckless and incompetent. Because someone decided: &quot;oh crap this is getting some publicity, we didn&#x27;t want it because we didn&#x27;t want him to be tipped off, but now since we have to defend ourselves and judge might be on their side, let us just forget about tipping him off.&quot; So then if he really make some terrorist related decision based of knowing they after him, who am I supposed to blame as a law abiding citizen who pays his taxes and demands FBI to be serious??<p>I will await for the day when one judge will say: &quot;well wait a second this might be criminal I want to see what you guys really up to, now its too late you can&#x27;t withdraw&quot;.
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jrnichols超过 8 年前
I saw some recent article saying that they were asking for donations because they wanted to move everything to Canada, as they were &quot;afraid of Trump.&quot; Yet it&#x27;s currently Obama&#x27;s administration still, and that&#x27;s what&#x27;s actually causing problems.<p>Odd.
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moreira超过 8 年前
It&#x27;s good to see that it&#x27;s now possible to fight these NSLs off. The people receiving them can require a court to review the NSL before complying, and that just seems much, much better to me. The FBI can no longer just gag people and force them to comply without judicial oversight.
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severine超过 8 年前
&gt; Chris Butler, office manager for the archive, suggests that pushing back on gag orders is the least recipients should do.<p>“It’s almost always doable for the people issuing these [law enforcement] requests to get a court order for nondisclosure if they think that that’s important,” he says. “And that’s what we require in order to not inform or not send out notice to users when their information has been requested.”
dirkg超过 8 年前
NSL&#x27;s are unconstitutional and should be illegal, sadly nothing is technically illegal if you are the govt.<p>The govt should not be allowed to operate in secret and issue gag orders, because then there is no recourse and no oversight, which is exactly what happens in practice.<p>Sadly most people in this country today couldn&#x27;t care less because fear mongering and appeal to American nationalism work wonders. No one cares about human rights, due process or holding people accountable.<p>Organizations like EFF, IA, Wikipedia&#x2F;leaks are the target of state sponsored attacks and media portrays them as evil.<p>For every time you hear of a case like this, there are thousands probably where the recipients lack the means to fight the order or are simply forced. The fact that the FBI withdrew in order not to set precedent proves they operate illegally, but of course there will be no mainstream coverage or consequences.
drallison超过 8 年前
Both EFF and the Internet Archive are worthy of your generous tax-deductible support. To donate to the Archive: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.org&#x2F;donate&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.org&#x2F;donate&#x2F;</a>. To donate to EFF: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supporters.eff.org&#x2F;donate&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supporters.eff.org&#x2F;donate&#x2F;</a>.
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imglorp超过 8 年前
I&#x27;m not sure why they didn&#x27;t use a regular court issued subpoena if they were after this one guy instead of messing around with something legally questionable.<p>I&#x27;m actually encouraged that it was only a request pertaining to one person, as opposed to say, install some permanent dragnet hardware that violated all IA users.
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qwertyuiop924超过 8 年前
It&#x27;s always great to hear about people fighting this sort of thing. In part because it means people know that they can: the more people are seen fighting, the more people see that you can, and will fight.<p>If I had my copy of HPDH near me, I&#x27;d be quoting Neville on this.
bane超过 8 年前
Once again, the IA demonstrates how much a crown jewel they are of not only the Internet, but to free speech. I can think of few other organizations to donate to without hesitation and the IA is at the top of that list.
koenigdavidmj超过 8 年前
We&#x27;re getting awfully close to &quot;capable of repetition, yet evading review&quot; territory. I hope there&#x27;s a court soon that doesn&#x27;t just let the government drop the case.