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First test of rival to Einstein’s gravity kills off dark matter

137 点作者 edran超过 8 年前

15 条评论

jessriedel超过 8 年前
Folks, the observation doesn&#x27;t test Verlinde&#x27;s idea, this tests a very general class of models, such as the well-known MOND scheme.<p>&gt; Milgrom, however, supports the work. He also points out that according to his own 2013 analysis of gravitational lensing data in galaxies, MOND produces similarly impressive results as Verlinde’s gravitational model does in Brouwer’s study.<p>(Also: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;motls.blogspot.ca&#x2F;2016&#x2F;11&#x2F;verlindes-de-sitter-mond-is-highly.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;motls.blogspot.ca&#x2F;2016&#x2F;11&#x2F;verlindes-de-sitter-mond-is...</a> )<p>This data cannot distinguish between Verlinde and other explanations for MOND-like behavior. We&#x27;ve long known that MOND seems to fit a <i>subset</i> of all observational data better the dark matter, in particular the Tully–Fisher relation<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tully%E2%80%93Fisher_relation" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tully%E2%80%93Fisher_relation</a><p>However, for the rest of the data (e.g., the CMB, large-scale structure, the bullet cluster), MOND is generally considered to give a worse fit than dark matter, or to be silent (because it&#x27;s not obvious how to extend MOND to a complete cosmological theory). That&#x27;s why experts think the totality of evidence supports dark matter.<p>Nothing has changed.
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beambot超过 8 年前
&gt; String theorist Lubos Motl savaged Verlinde’s ideas in a recent blog post: “I wouldn’t okay this wrong piece of work as an undergraduate term paper.”<p>I find this rudeness and pedantry in academia infuriating. There&#x27;s no justification for this level of nastiness -- not in private, public, peer review, or science as a whole. Seeking out the unknown and creative explanations thereof is the hallmark of good science; check your ego at the door. I know nothing about him... but in my book, Lubos Motl can go pound sand.
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pavel_lishin超过 8 年前
I&#x27;d be kind of bummed to lose dark matter as a concept. I want to hold onto the idea that it&#x27;s just as rich as our matter, with its own quantum chromodynamics and an equivalent to the electromagnetic force, leading to a &quot;shadow&quot; universe with their own planets, life, etc. that exists side by side us, trying to figure out why their gravity measurements are just slightly off...
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bmh100超过 8 年前
Please change the submission title. It is downright misleading. This test did not &quot;kill off&quot; dark matter. To do so would imply overwhelming evidence against the concept of dark matter as a whole. Instead, this theory, which eliminates the need for dark matter in certain situations, has passed its first test. The sentence &quot;... test ... kills off dark matter&quot; is simply false.
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thejollysin超过 8 年前
Physicist here. Please do not put too much stock in this paper.<p>Some of the folks on this paper are good scientists, but this appears to be more about looking for funding than good science.<p>Their paper on the Arxiv is about building some math to make gravity look like dark matter. But this has been done 1000 times before with no success. They have no physical basis for their math; there is no reality behind it. I do not expect this to get them the Nobel Prize.
empath75超过 8 年前
&#x27;Kills off dark matter&quot; is probably overstating the case, but I love this theory because it ties together a lot of big ideas.<p>Verlinde&#x27;s paper is here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;1611.02269" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;1611.02269</a>
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Jun8超过 8 年前
You may find the top answer to this SE question helpful (asked 5 years ago, though): <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;physics.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;6561&#x2F;are-modified-theories-of-gravity-credible" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;physics.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;6561&#x2F;are-modified...</a>. Especially I think the following comment is spot on:<p>&quot;Galaxy rotation curves are not very good tests for GR itself, since there are so many parameters about mass distribution in a galaxy which are simply not nearly as precisely understood as GR itself&quot;
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Florin_Andrei超过 8 年前
&gt; <i>Now, a team of astronomers studying the distribution of matter in more than 30,000 galaxies say their observations can be explained by an alternative theory that does away with dark matter. If this “modified gravity” is correct, it would up-end hundreds of years of fundamental physics.</i><p>No, it would reshape the &quot;top&quot; of these theories. The base would remain the same.
brilliantcode超过 8 年前
Can someone explain in layman&#x27;s terms what really is dark matter and why there&#x27;s so much obsession around it? If we can&#x27;t observe it and we are only relying on inferences to explain it&#x27;s effects, that seems like pretty weak set of legs.<p>Obviously I&#x27;m missing the academic discipline to appreciate this topic but nevertheless, I&#x27;m curious about our understanding of the very fabric and mechanisms of our reality and the universe.
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Animats超过 8 年前
The title overstates the results of research work. From the article: &quot;Now, a team of astronomers studying the distribution of matter in more than 30,000 galaxies say their observations can be explained by an alternative theory that does away with dark matter.&quot;<p>Suggest &quot;Astronomers studying galaxy mass distribution say their observations can be explained without dark matter.&quot;
FeatureRush超过 8 年前
What would be the next test? Clusters or that dark matter dwarf galaxy causing ripples in our Milky Way?
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andrewflnr超过 8 年前
<p><pre><code> “But then if you mathematically factor in the fact that Verlinde’s prediction doesn’t have any free parameters, whereas the dark matter prediction does, then you find Verlinde’s model is actually performing slightly better.” </code></pre> What? How does this work?
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daxfohl超过 8 年前
The central equation in this paper is 4.40. It doesn&#x27;t seem to account for some galaxies recently discovered that are almost entirely dark matter.
jsilence超过 8 年前
Totally OT: I read &quot;Einsteins graffitti&quot; and could watch my own brain trying to make sense of the sentence. And fail.
josefdlange超过 8 年前
Juuuust gonna leave this here...<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1758&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1758&#x2F;</a>
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