TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Taking a month off from OSS volunteering

229 点作者 liuw超过 8 年前

30 条评论

antirez超过 8 年前
For me it was very stressful to learn how to cope with that, and fortunately I&#x27;m paid at least to do the bulk of the work I do (that is, all the work on Redis is paid). However once you learn the mental attitude to have towards this issues, they disappear magically. It&#x27;s you VS many people, and as the user base increases, there is <i>no way</i> you can handle issues and PRs. The contributors need to adapt in order to make your work as simple as possible, otherwise their issues&#x2F;PRs will get ignored. I personally cherry-pick among the ones that are easy to read, understand, general. There is always who will say, don&#x27;t you feel ashamed?!!11 Redis has tons of open PRs &#x2F; Issues! When people tell you this, always focus on what you did of good and not on what you can&#x27;t do well enough. In case of unpaied OSS work, the attitude should be to do it only to <i>have fun</i> and <i>learn</i>. There are no other justifications: IMHO it&#x27;s very wrong to donate time to OSS like if it was a charity, OSS is used by companies doing tons of money and startups that sold for <i>billions</i>. Nobody cared about redistributing back money to authors of the OSS that permitted them to create (alonside with their great product) this result, so you as an OSS maintainer should only care to have fun.<p>EDIT: I think it is very important to outline how in my experience 99% of the user base is <i>wonderful</i>, splendid human being, nice, willing to help. It&#x27;s just that the wrong 1% is very verbal and if you focus on that one is terrible, but I believe it is hard to find an environment like the &quot;Underground IT&#x2F;OSS&quot; scene from the POV of people quality. It&#x27;s just that&#x27;s impossible to get zero-assholes-environments.<p>EDIT 2: To other OSS maintainers, a trick is to be super gentle with harsh people. You&#x27;ll feel much, much better compared to using their own tones.
评论 #13232535 未加载
评论 #13231914 未加载
评论 #13231417 未加载
评论 #13231397 未加载
评论 #13234568 未加载
Klathmon超过 8 年前
I have a question for any OSS maintainers:<p>How should I ask for help&#x2F;bugfixes&#x2F;solutions? How can I get across that an issue is a &quot;showstopper&quot; for us without demanding anything? How can I offer solutions or fixes or changes up without contributing to the &quot;burnout&quot; that i&#x27;ve seen many many times from many people that I respect and enjoy the work of.<p>Recently I was inadvertently one of those nameless-faceless demanders, and I had no idea that I was coming across like that until it was pointed out to me.<p>I want to voice my opinions, my needs, my use cases without coming across as demanding or winy. And making a PR out of left field generally causes more issues than it solves since it was made without direction or input from the maintainer.
评论 #13231427 未加载
评论 #13231294 未加载
评论 #13231367 未加载
评论 #13231343 未加载
评论 #13233206 未加载
评论 #13231964 未加载
评论 #13232027 未加载
评论 #13231903 未加载
评论 #13233154 未加载
评论 #13234929 未加载
评论 #13232479 未加载
评论 #13231196 未加载
评论 #13231860 未加载
评论 #13233692 未加载
评论 #13231205 未加载
mitchellh超过 8 年前
I&#x27;m the creator and maintainer of a number of popular open source tools and projects. I even went on to start and build a company around many of them. Prior to that though, I was purely just an OSS maintainer during my free time for 3 or 4 years.<p>This blog post rings true 100%.<p>The unfortunate thing is that 99.9% of the community is filled with great, helpful, happy people. But then the 1 in 1000 person comes along that is... less than great... and that person puts a raincloud on your day as a maintainer (or even worse: puts a raincloud on SOMEONE ELSE in the community). And this person usually manifests themself exactly as this blog post states: demanding, lacking detail in requests, not understanding, irrational, rude, etc. They&#x27;re hard folks to deal with.<p>I try to remember that THEY are also human. One thing I was taught when I worked at Apple Retail (yes, retail) is that people are angry for a reason. Very very very few people are angry purely to hurt you. Almost everyone who is angry, on the flip side, is angry for a reason and emotions are effecting them. I try to empathize and understand their pain, try to see what I can do to help them. This is certainly a challenge, though. ( See my blog post: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mitchellh.com&#x2F;apple-the-key-to-my-success" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mitchellh.com&#x2F;apple-the-key-to-my-success</a> )<p>Disclaimer for the above paragraph: I&#x27;m not saying the blog poster here shouldn&#x27;t take a month off. They absolutely should if they feel that would help. The constant berating is very mentally straining.<p>Something that helps greatly: if you&#x27;re a happy user, if you had a good experience, just open an issue that says &quot;Thanks&quot;. Some people close it, some people leave it open. Either way I promise that that little gesture of good will will really help the morale of maintainers. We don&#x27;t even mind closing your non-issue issue. :)<p>As a maintainer looking at an issue list, we see just that: a list of issues. Its easy to fall into a trap of thinking everything is terrible and everyone hates what you do. Seeing happy users on Twitter, at conferences, etc. reinforces that its not all pain and despair.<p>So from a maintainer: thank you to the community for being so great! :)
评论 #13233385 未加载
评论 #13231770 未加载
评论 #13234638 未加载
heckless超过 8 年前
Thanks for writing this. It takes a hard head to be an open-source project maintainer and taking a step back and evaluating how to contribute to open source software while keeping it enjoyable is a good thing to do.<p>I see so much abuse on Github (stuff like &quot;your README is utter garbage&quot; and other frustration, all over, all the time) and it&#x27;s really disappointing. I don&#x27;t ever expect the issue-reporting community to change so instead maintainers have to learn how to deal with it, which is unfortunate and leads to the type of burnout detailed here and in numerous other posts I&#x27;ve seen on HN.<p>Don&#x27;t give in and quit! Ignore the trolls.
hrayr超过 8 年前
Brett, thanks for your contributions to Python. This is coming from a person in the majority of silent users who simply enjoy the fruits of your and other contributor&#x27;s labor, without complaining and admittedly without giving enough praise. Big props, and hang in there.
评论 #13231259 未加载
moxious超过 8 年前
There&#x27;s been a lot of discussion over years about open source communities, and how curating the community is an important part about that.<p>If people aren&#x27;t paid in cash, they need to be paid in other things, like egoboo, kind words, gratitude, whatever.<p>When people get mistreated while volunteering their time for open source, looking at that from an economics perspective it&#x27;s every bit as bad as when a company decides it&#x27;d rather not pay its employees. It&#x27;s good if programming is fun, but &quot;fun&quot; doesn&#x27;t pay the bills, and doesn&#x27;t advance your career. Reputation and contribution could though.<p>But it&#x27;s hard to fix, because the paymasters (the community) don&#x27;t always care. I think in the long run, the true driver of open source is people scratching their own itch. Most I believe don&#x27;t do it for altruistic reasons or even for fun, but because they use this piece of software themselves to do something productive, and need it to be better.
hartator超过 8 年前
For maintaining a small OSS tool, it&#x27;s true that most of the people are rude.<p>Posting a &quot;don&#x27;t work with Windows&quot; without any thing more. When asked for a backtrace or an explanation, copy&#x2F;paste without formatting or anything else. Demanding for a feature without making a case for it. Not using any polite or nice phrasing in a thread.<p>I don&#x27;t know the best to react to this. Maybe we should just close their issues without any explanation with just a link to a guideline or something. But, when you care about your project, you tolerate the abuse because you truly want to make your project better despite it.<p>It&#x27;s like the rude kid of the article suggesting a new rule, but you actually find it&#x27;s not that a bad of idea and deserve some thoughts into it.<p>It&#x27;s hard to draw a line.
评论 #13231032 未加载
评论 #13231053 未加载
评论 #13231153 未加载
评论 #13231425 未加载
pipio21超过 8 年前
One of the big troubles with OSS volunteering is the current state of technology to communicate with others on the Internet.<p>In our company we have been working from home for years. Using the telephone or teleconference is basic in order to really understand each other.<p>Only text communication is terrible because basically you filter all the emotions from the message. The worst thing is that you interpret or reconstruct those emotions based on your own state of mind. If you are burned out it is not pretty.<p>I can&#x27;t tell you how bad it is when someone takes something trivial on text and interprets it as an aggression and responds aggressively and escalates and yet it happens every single day when you put an only text communication center in place.<p>The same thing told in another context, in a person to person meeting will be nothing because we are automatically using our tone of voice and body language in order to complete the message.<p>This has to improve some way.
评论 #13231370 未加载
评论 #13232021 未加载
johnnycarcin超过 8 年前
I honestly don&#x27;t understand why this happens. Do people really not understand that the OSS products they are using are typically created by people on their free time and that they don&#x27;t owe you anything? If you want support pay for it, either through the OSS product itself or via a 3rd party consultant.<p>If you are not a developer or just don&#x27;t have the time, I highly encourage you to support these projects in other ways: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;esheavyindustries.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;02&#x2F;have-some-extra-cash-help-make-your-life-easier&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;esheavyindustries.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;02&#x2F;have-some-extra-cash-h...</a><p>For most of the OSS products I use I typically am not knowledgeable enough to submit code and I really don&#x27;t have a lot of free time so I send them money or buy things off of their wishlist. A lot of these products make it capable for me to do my job and without them I&#x27;d likely be in a totally different spot. Sending them a few bucks a month or buying a book for them seems like the least I could do.<p>Just be nice and thankful for the work that these people&#x2F;groups are putting out their and help where you can.
评论 #13231504 未加载
unvs超过 8 年前
I usually check in on open source projects I use and see what is going on in the issues and pull requests tabs on github. Almost every time I check, there is someone behaving in a rude and&#x2F;or entitled way.<p>Some of these projects have implemented github&#x27;s issue template, and the crazy thing is, these people actually just DELETE the entire template before writing their issue. They can&#x27;t even be bothered to fill in the few fields the maintainers ask for.<p>I had hoped that Github would have translated the issue templates to actual forms, where you at least HAD to fill in the fields before getting to submit.
brettcannon超过 8 年前
As the author of the post being linked to, I just wanted to say thanks for all the kind words being said in this thread that are directed at me. For those that are curious, I&#x27;m still contributing to open source (I&#x27;m actually doing some on my vacation, but it&#x27;s stuff I want to work on so it&#x27;s all good). :)<p>I know the tone is rather dark here in the comments due to the fact that project maintainers are coming forward and saying how they end up suffering in a similar way as I have. But acknowledgment is the first step in dealing with a problem. My hope is we as an overall community of open source can come to terms with the problem at hand and start to develop solutions. (and if anyone cares, my current thinking on potential solutions all rely around improving our communication tools, but that&#x27;s probably for another blog post :) ).
jjn2009超过 8 年前
We have likely hit the peak of this open source trend. Many companies rely on this model for ensuring their product is the most widely adopted however the individual contributor side of the story always seems to be ridden with experiences like the one stated in this article.<p>This sort of correction is necessary, the reason a contributors time is not valued is because of vast abundance of open source contributions out there today which people share for free.
briankwest超过 8 年前
I&#x27;m one of the founding members of the FreeSWITCH Project, I&#x27;ve literally had people call my cellphone and demand I help them for free, because the software is free, it has free in its name and some how that translates into I must help them. This article is spot on, When you find the good contributors you help them, give them empowerment and you&#x27;ll get rewards as a project, but every now and then you have that one person come along an just ruin your day over something that makes no sense at all. Bug reports that are incomplete, when you close them as incomplete they get reopened with NO additional details. Pasting logs into word docs and attaching them to the bug, uploading core files as if thats helpful.<p>I try my best to stay positive, I now think of those people as potential customers to help me make living. It does change your view of things. :)
satori99超过 8 年前
&gt; [...] people have made demands on my free time simply because I previously gave them that same gift to help make Python, as if the gift of my free time is in perpetuity<p>A long time ago, I worked for a radio station as an audio engineer. Every piece of work I was assigned had a hard deadline for delivery or broadcast, so I often did the easy jobs first and delivered them early to get it out of the way.<p>My boss noticed this, and called me into his office one day to explain to me that if I kept doing this, people would <i>expect</i> that work early every time, or give me less time to do it, and eventually it would bite me.<p>I tend to give some thought to managing expectations is most situations now. Paid or otherwise.
msoad超过 8 年前
Check out &quot;Issues from hell&quot;[1] Twitter account, they collected a ton of terrible behavior in open source forums:<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;issuesfromhell" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;issuesfromhell</a>
pauldix超过 8 年前
This resonates with me. I&#x27;ve definitely been discouraged over years of OSS work by people that are rude or expect free labor. However, I try to remind myself that these are the vocal minority.<p>There are many people that are positive and help by contributing feedback, testing, answering other community members questions, and even submitting code to the various projects.<p>OSS can be exhausting at times, but over my career I haven&#x27;t found anything that is quite as rewarding. It feels great to have another developer use code I&#x27;ve written to help get their job done. And that&#x27;s why I keep coming back to OSS.
nercht12超过 8 年前
To some extent, geek culture is self-deprecating. We give away our work and then, when we receive it, we don&#x27;t know how to say thank you.<p>I feel awkward saying thank you on projects. Whenever I go to comment, it&#x27;s like I feel the need to offer something in return, even if I don&#x27;t have the time or money.<p>I do sincerely appreciate the many FOSS project contributors out there, however little I may say so, and I hope that at least a number of devs consider silence and a high download count to be a sign that everyone is happy and that they, the devs, are doing a great job.
Sukotto超过 8 年前
I&#x27;m late to the party on this discussion, but did want to say this brings to mind the similar troubles popular authors can have with their readers.<p>... and which prompted this wonderful essay&#x2F;rant from Neil Gaiman &quot;Entitlement issues&quot; (aka &quot;George R.R. Martin is not your bitch&quot;)<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;journal.neilgaiman.com&#x2F;2009&#x2F;05&#x2F;entitlement-issues.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;journal.neilgaiman.com&#x2F;2009&#x2F;05&#x2F;entitlement-issues.htm...</a>
AlisdairO超过 8 年前
Just wanted to offer a counterpoint to the general negativity in this comment thread: for my small OSS project I&#x27;ve always received respectful comments&#x2F;issues on github. Some more or less helpful, but I&#x27;ve never felt used or abused.<p>Not intending to cast doubt on any of the experiences here, just to highlight that there&#x27;s good experiences to be had too :-). I suspect one difference is that my project is dedicated towards education. As far as I know no-one is relying on it for their income.
Bahamut超过 8 年前
I have learned to detach myself some from open source, as some users are always going to be terrible, and IMO, more people should make an honest effort to contribute back to open source. If one gets too invested, it becomes too easy for negative contributors to affect your mental state, which affects the quality of solutions implemented.<p>For example, I encountered a bug this morning in one of the latest releases that came from the Angular team yesterday. Before opening an issue in GitHub, I did some deeper investigation in the code to figure out more details as to what was happening, as it was something that I could not give a nice minimal reproduction for them to fix as it dealt with something complicated. I posted the information, and along with help with two other contributors, we narrowed down the issue to one module. It was frustrating to encounter such breakage with minor version upgrades on packages, but as an open source maintainer of some major projects myself, I know it is more counterproductive to lash out at maintainers who are doing the best they can with the information &amp; resources they have.
mwpmaybe超过 8 年前
I&#x27;ve been on both sides and I have to say that the road goes both ways.<p>When I was getting started with a language last year I found a missing feature in a module of an open source library and submitted a very simple PR to add the feature. The maintainer asked me to completely refactor the module. I admittedly overreacted to this request—as I perceived it to be way too big of an ask—before settling down and getting to work on it. Then it literally took almost six months for the maintainer to review and merge my PR because of the intensity of the refactoring and performance regressions. (I would get some small piece of feedback, submit a fix or more information, wait weeks and weeks to hear back again, repeat ad naseum.)<p>So yes, issue-reporters and PR-submitters can be irritating, demanding, and disrespectful of maintainers&#x27; time, but maintainers can be just as bad.<p>Postscript: I don&#x27;t regret the time I spent on it because it was an awesome learning experience, but it was certainly frustrating at the time!
评论 #13232638 未加载
buovjaga超过 8 年前
The &quot;relationships&quot; section of the post did not mention quality assurance team members. I find that a strong QA team patrolling the bug tracker protects developers from a lot of noise. My own experience is with desktop software and I can imagine it might be harder to assemble a large team for a programming language, but I urge everyone to give it a shot.<p>I wrote a little something about the subject recently: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;inkscape.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;news&#x2F;2016&#x2F;12&#x2F;13&#x2F;bug-testing-roadshow-hits-inkscape&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;inkscape.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;news&#x2F;2016&#x2F;12&#x2F;13&#x2F;bug-testing-roadshow...</a>
elastic_church超过 8 年前
I can relate to most of this, and I try to be conscious of this when I come across a dependency of a dependency that I find out is under maintained and should be fixed. In many package managers it is difficult to modify sub dependencies without changing the whole structure of the project.<p>For some other things, like in the Android Open Source Project, these things are very intolerable. Google employees mostly have a monopoly on development, and ridiculous stuff still slips through the cracks and nobody can practically modify it.
nodivbyzero超过 8 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;snarky.ca&#x2F;how-i-stay-happy-making-open-source-software&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;snarky.ca&#x2F;how-i-stay-happy-making-open-source-softwa...</a>
jquast超过 8 年前
I think we could all share plenty of stories of abuse and having our volunteer time abused or undervalued...<p>It&#x27;s very overwhelming to have a large public project that your day job doesn&#x27;t care about. When I find those rare moments of free time, and feeling like writing code, I feel guilty for not contributing it to my employer, and guilty for letting issues pile up in github, and guilty if I&#x27;d rather write new code.<p>I feel paralyzed and do nothing, I&#x27;ve mostly ignored FOSS this year, and they just pile up...
pikzen超过 8 年前
Sometimes, I wonder if there&#x27;s a market for a service to tell people off when they&#x27;re being rude, inconsiderate or plain dicks. Sod Off as a Service. I just keep reading and reading examples of OSS maintainers receiving mails just like the first example given. Always bring me halfway between a laughing and being angry.
j_s超过 8 年前
<i>In order to help others more effectively share the maintenance burden, I need to stop fixing bugs and focus on helping them with patch submissions.</i><p>This is a good takeaway; I hope more maintainers are willing to prioritize patches.
briandear超过 8 年前
Sounds like a terrible country. You can&#x27;t get paid without a registered business and your employer can tell you what you can&#x27;t do on your own time?<p>Why do people vote for those sorts of policies?
评论 #13234209 未加载
评论 #13233981 未加载
65827超过 8 年前
I could always smell this awful elitism and generally treating people like garbage from even the very early days of Stack Overflow and Github. Unfortunately any attempts to push back or criticize it will assure you are never allowed to participate in these self reinforcing &quot;karma&quot; based communities, so it&#x27;s taken waaayyy longer for people to come around on this than it should have.
vinceguidry超过 8 年前
&gt; When the bug didn&#x27;t get fixed, they personally emailed me asking me to fix it as a consultant within three days. When I said I didn&#x27;t have the time, they then asked me to do it anyway for free because they still had their own three-day deadline and shouldn&#x27;t I just want to help them out?<p>I feel like we need a professional ethics code to handle situations like this. To me, if someone is willing to throw money at me to solve a problem, it behooves me to want to help them out. The only consideration here <i>should</i> be, &quot;how much.&quot; I would have looked at my current obligations, and quoted them a price at which I would have been willing to drop everything to come up with a patch for.<p>His unwillingness to help them out is, in the eyes of the business world, unprofessional. I get it, we&#x27;re coders and we do this for fun. But how are we ever going to get the rest of the world to afford us the same respect that doctors and lawyers get if we&#x27;re unwilling to play ball?<p>If I&#x27;m running a business and I need something, I should be able to pay a reasonable amount of money to get it. What&#x27;s reasonable as determined by a negotiation between me and the party providing it. If I went to him and he was like, I need $10K to do this by Friday, that gives me a baseline. If I balk at the price, but I can get by if I push it to next Tuesday, can I get it for $6K?<p>If he tells me he can&#x27;t do it at any price, then that means I <i>can&#x27;t rely on OSS as a pillar of my business</i>.<p>These are the problems I wish Stallman would apply his huge brain to solving. Not saving us from Facebook.
评论 #13231186 未加载
评论 #13231124 未加载
评论 #13231266 未加载
评论 #13231442 未加载
评论 #13231327 未加载
评论 #13231436 未加载
评论 #13231242 未加载
评论 #13231241 未加载
评论 #13231204 未加载
评论 #13231077 未加载
评论 #13231372 未加载
评论 #13231117 未加载
评论 #13233246 未加载
评论 #13231849 未加载
评论 #13231167 未加载