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Ask HN: Junior devs, what frustrates you the most at the recruitment process?

36 点作者 alinalex超过 8 年前
Self-taught web developer here. I would like to see more interviews for cultural fit. What about you?<p>Feel free to embrace debate.

11 条评论

hunglee2超过 8 年前
The main issue with &#x27;seniority&#x27; labels is that they are contextual - dependent on the hierarchies already in place in the existing team. In simpler language, what is a &#x27;junior&#x27; developer changes depending on who is already there. The main manifestation of this in the recruiting process is a misalignment of expectation between the candidate and the employer. And all kinds of bad things can happen from this: under &#x2F; over sold jobs, job title &#x27;inflation&#x27;, incipient turf wars and so on.<p>It&#x27;s not an easy problem to solve and we&#x27;ve wrestled with this on Workshape.io (matching platform for Software devs). The formula we&#x27;ve come up with is a 4 level hierarchy based not on experience or times served but on the role you play within the team.<p>Entry - you are competent, but need guidance &#x2F; supervision &#x2F; mentorship. Your code will be reviewed before deploy<p>Mid-level - you are competent but do not lead or manage<p>Senior - you are still hands on, but do lead and manage others<p>Lead - you may still be hands on but managing &#x2F; leading &#x2F; deciding are the most important things you do.<p>Its still our categorisation though and we know it&#x27;s not perfect at all
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guitarbill超过 8 年前
Requiring a CS degree and asking coding questions that boil down to if you&#x27;ve memorised BFS&#x2F;DFS.<p>When we were hiring, I noticed people couldn&#x27;t look past non-CS degree, and so we were effectively turning people with 3+ years of experience and great Github profiles&#x2F;real world experience away. Because we &quot;wanted the best&quot;.<p>Or having people fail shitty coding &quot;challenges&quot; because they couldn&#x27;t remember breadth-first search of the top of their heads. Never mind that they knew where to look the algos up, or the role was pretty much full stack web developer.
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paublyrne超过 8 年前
When I was a junior dev trying to get my first jobs, what was frustrating was the range of what &#x27;junior dev&#x27; meant. Anything from knowing what JavaScript is to having 2+ years of experience with a JS framework, and having a Github full of interesting side projects.<p>The latter style job posts were very disheartening to read, and I sometimes wondered how I would ever get enough experience to get a job as junior dev!
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jackgolding超过 8 年前
I&#x27;m a little bit more senior (4 years experience) than a new junior and not a developer per se (work in marketing tech) but my biggest gripe are the hurdles you have to do to reach the hiring manager (or how drawn out some of these processes are). Some of these I&#x27;ve experienced are:<p>1. Cover letters - I&#x27;d rather someone from HR screen my resume and give me a 3 minute call about why I wanted to apply for the job.<p>2. Take home exercises&#x2F;psychometrics before having an in person interview<p>3. Interview with junior staff before an interview (good experience for the staff but I&#x27;ve found them to be a bit unsure of what to ask.)<p>4. Vetting from HR or recruiters that don&#x27;t really know the topic but are just looking for keywords which indicate competence (i.e. &quot;SQL&quot;,&quot;Reporting&quot;, &quot;Project Manage&quot;,&quot;Agile&quot;) or want to know why you want to work at the company specifically when the careers website has poor information.<p>My ideal process would be (for a large company): Apply with Resume (ideally one-click apply) -&gt; Short Chat with HR on phone -&gt; In person interview with hiring manager -&gt; Interview with senior manager (more on cultural fit and long term fit) or short take home (ability) -&gt; Offer
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throwaway_374超过 8 年前
Probably when you&#x27;re interviewed by some mid-senior manager who isn&#x27;t capable of writing any code and his sole purpose is to &quot;keep you in line&quot; so tries to assert a bullying authority from the outset.<p>Extremely typical in big corps. Makes me wonder what purpose they serve other than being glorified messengers between the board and real works.
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greyostrich超过 8 年前
As someone who has been unemployed since graduation....<p>Getting no feedback, not even a rejection, after an onsite.<p>Trivia games<p>Getting rejected because of the lack of keywords on your resume. Example: I was interviewing for Walmart. Recruiter said I must&#x27;ve applied to the wrong position, since I had no Java framework keywords. This was for a new grad position.<p>Companys not asking any algo questions, not even STAR ones, and me still getting rejected.<p>Lots of lying by the recruiters that revolve around salary.
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bsvalley超过 8 年前
In reality culture fit means &quot;do I like you or not?&quot;. To get disqualified on culture fit, all you need is one single interviewer that will not feel %100 comfortable working with you. You can get discriminated on anything really, if you seem smarter than the interviewer, if the interviewer is having a bad day, your voice, the way you look, your laugh, etc. In other words, it&#x27;s nearly impossible to figure out the exact reason why you&#x27;d get disqualified on &quot;culture fit&quot;. It&#x27;s in the interviewer&#x27;s brain only. He or she will obviously never share the real reason why. Sometimes it&#x27;s not even explainable on paper, it&#x27;s just a personal feeling, you haven&#x27;t connected with the candidate for no particular reason. So you can&#x27;t write an official feedback based on culture fit. Interviewers will never share their personal tastes because it doesn&#x27;t seem professional. That&#x27;s why &#x27;we&#x27; use algorithm questions :)<p>Speaking of &quot;technical&quot; questions - the good news is that there&#x27;s absolutely no difference between Junior and Senior dev nowadays. Questions are identical so you can learn it once and re-apply for life. Everything you&#x27;ve learned in college is what will get you a job, even 10 years down the road so forget about your professional experience. Majority of interviewers have no skills interviewing candidates. They apply the same evaluation whether you&#x27;re a tech lead or fresh out of school. If you happen to have 10 years of experience or at least one project on your Resume, they might fill up the blanks by asking you a few questions about your previous projects. But the goal is to jump straight into the basic CS questions (algo) because this leads to a YES or NO answer. That&#x27;s what interviewers use to make a decision and let you go to the next round or not. You can&#x27;t fail answering questions like &quot;tell me about your project XYZ, what was difficult, how did you solve it&quot;. Though if you can&#x27;t reverse a linked list because you forgot to google it prior to the interview, you will get disqualified right away since it gives the interviewer a solid feedback to write down that will never get challenged by the hiring manager.<p>To answer your question - what I just wrote is what frustrates me the most in the recruiting process in the Software world. I&#x27;ve been dealing with this thing for years... as an interviewer and interviewee. Things are getting worse in 2017 because I see 500 applicants per job. You get disqualified on questions like &quot;do you use a new line for curly braces?&quot;. The trick is to not answer right away and to return the question back to the interviewer - &quot;good question, what do YOU use?&quot;. Then just say &quot;me too&quot;... safe bet.
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johnb777超过 8 年前
Being quizzed on specific language syntax during in person interviews when they knew I didn&#x27;t have much experience in that language was annoying.<p>Also, any mention of a cover letter was frustrating. I think hiring managers have enough info to decide if a phone interview makes sense with just a resume&#x2F;Github, especially for a technical role.<p>Also, having to spend 20+ minutes creating an account with all my personal info just to submit an application stopped me from applying to multiple positions. That time adds up during a job search and makes it extra stressful, not to mention you end up feeling like you just dropped your resume into a black hole where it will never be seen.
JCDenton2052超过 8 年前
For me it used to be the fact that everyone required at least 1 year&#x27;s worth of work experience. They would hardly grant you an interview without it with all open source projects in the world. Recruiters don&#x27;t even know what open source is and employers might have assigned the hiring to a legacy guy who&#x27;s never done open source either.<p>You can&#x27;t get work experience without working so it was 6 months of constant searching before I got a job.
sotojuan超过 8 年前
If the company is not a startup or otherwise very young, then a lack of training or mentoring.<p>I&#x27;m expected to be a cheaper version of a mid&#x2F;senior dev, perhaps just a bit slower.
amalfra超过 8 年前
Companies that give opportunities to some one just because he got a degree from premier institution