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Tears

417 点作者 urs大约 8 年前

26 条评论

jawon大约 8 年前
Tears aren&#x27;t excretory or cathartic? Maybe this guy hasn&#x27;t been through the right kind of situation.<p>When one of my kids was going through a health crisis I did a heck of a lot of lone crying. Each time internal stress and anxiety would build, my guts would get all churned up, then it would reach the point where I would cry and the &quot;symptoms&quot; would all reduce dramatically before starting to build up again.<p>I was amazed at the time that crying had such a noticeable effect on physical symptoms. I thought I must be dumping something, adrenalin?, out my tear ducts.<p>I&#x27;m probably wrong, though it&#x27;s not the kind of set up you can test in a lab.
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bbctol大约 8 年前
The question of why humans cry is always fascinating, since it&#x27;s such an instinctive behavior we don&#x27;t seem to realize how bizarre it is. I tried a little to develop a deliberately insane theory to submit to BAHfest (SMBC&#x27;s festival of bad scientific hypotheses <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bahfest.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bahfest.com</a>) and proposed that crying exists to blind us during periods of great emotional stress, since we&#x27;d otherwise be prone to irrational and dangerous behavior. Unfortunately, compared with the real attempts to explain tears, it seemed a little too plausible to be bad! When the state of research has someone proposing &quot;we cry because of the soot flying into our eyes at prehistoric funeral pyres,&quot; it&#x27;s hard to be deliberately weird. (I eventually came up with a much funnier topic, so swing by if you&#x27;re in the area shameless plug etc)
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dgreensp大约 8 年前
As a parent, it seems like a glaring omission that most crying is done by babies. It&#x27;s right there in the article that humans have the &quot;most dependent babies,&quot; and signaling behaviors are often repurposed responses, so it&#x27;s a good starting point to say that crying (with big inhales and audible sobs) evolved as a &quot;baby in distress&quot; alarm, in which a baby makes a lot of noise because it needs help. We go to that place when we feel small or want the kind of support a parent would give.<p>Babies often don&#x27;t have tears for the first few months, but I&#x27;m not sure that&#x27;s important. I do think they play a role on the playground, and a lot of the speculation about their effects in social situations sounds right. I don&#x27;t have any ideas to contribute on why crying is accompanied by tears.<p><i>In any other species, wearing a signal that advertises, &quot;I recently lost in a dominance challenge,&quot; is a strict liability — an invitation for others to pile on, opportunistically, and attack you while you&#x27;re down (or else to mentally note that you&#x27;re no longer a good, strong ally). There&#x27;s no upside, therefore, to using anything other than a quick facial expression or flash of body language, to show your submission only to the aggressor.</i><p>That sounds like an overly harsh picture of non-humans to me! I&#x27;m pretty sure at least certain apes help their potentially-non-kin in distress. Humans aren&#x27;t the only social mammals.
scandox大约 8 年前
I found the preamble a tad confusing. It seems to imply that all our evolutionary behaviours aim at solving a problem. I had understood that they are simply the emergent phenomenon of selection - in other words they are the behaviours associated with successful individuals&#x2F;groups. Is this just a sort of shorthand - assigning a kind of design _intention_ to Nature as a simpler way of expressing this? If so, isn&#x27;t it anyway the case that not all selected behaviours do actually solve a problem, but are sometimes just a case of &quot;stuff that became associated with success&quot;?<p>I should say my last encounter with biology was a GCSE some time in the 1990s.
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blackRust大约 8 年前
Having recently read &quot;Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are?&quot; [1] by the brilliant primatologist Frans de Waal, the whole introductory paragraph reeks of the &quot;humans only&quot; dogma.<p>Even the link to the Wikipedia article directly contradicts the statement of humans being the only species to bury their dead.<p>How counter-intuitive it is: so many aspects of evolution we accept as continuum with shared phenotypes (and extended phenotypes) all the way through, yet when it comes to our intelligence and specialness, we forget all of this.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;books.wwnorton.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;Are-We-Smart-Enough-to-Know-How-Smart-Animals-Are&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;books.wwnorton.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;Are-We-Smart-Enough-to-Know-...</a>
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6stringmerc大约 8 年前
Neat summary and contextualization of the topic! Seems simple on the surface, which is why a nice lead through is helpful.<p>Last week at the zoo I watched the Chimpanzee dynamics for a good half hour or so. Very extreme by comparison to us. Loud. Chasing. Urination.<p>I suspect that biologically there&#x27;s some overlap between Tears in Humans - which Chimps don&#x27;t seem to possess the capacity to produce - and Defecation as a communication mechanism that Humans have spent a lot of time evolving away from. Each can be quite expressive.
throwaway5752大约 8 年前
Is there anyone here that&#x27;s an actual subject matter expert on this topic? I know 1) that I am not a expert on why people cry 2) I don&#x27;t believe the author has more than a day&#x27;s worth of googling more background on the subject than me 3) I suspect there are people that have devoted a whole lot more time than the author to the question of why humans cry.<p>I&#x27;m not trying to judge the author, I&#x27;m just selfish about and hate wasting my time. This had every hallmark of half-assed pseudo-intellectualism and I don&#x27;t have a day of time to find out.
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gerbilly大约 8 年前
&gt;Humans, unique among all animals, have an instinct to resist aggression even when it&#x27;s directed toward other members of the group (even non-kin).<p>I&#x27;m not convinced that this is a unique to humans.
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applesapl大约 8 年前
For some reason I just find his articles annoying..his tendency to ascribe a scientific or economic purpose&#x2F;motive behind everything ..seems too much like positivism and eliminative materialism. Science and economics isn&#x27;t the answer to everything.
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Nomentatus大约 8 年前
I&#x27;m toying with the idea that tears are the direct result of excess CSF pressure (i.e. a way to vent that), having observed someone with that condition who tears very easily. Just maybe. This would presumably require that the lacrimal fossa be connected to the inside of the skull, which is certainly possible. Humans, the only upright animal, have unique fluid pressure problems within the skull (except for giraffes - maybe they cry, and nobody&#x27;s noticed) so crying being unique to humans wouldn&#x27;t be too surprising. One tiny bit of evidence, a study showing valproic acid ratios (in those taking the drug) are about the same in both CSF fluid and tears: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pubmed&#x2F;6799283" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pubmed&#x2F;6799283</a><p>Of course, crying being a signaling mechanism is another explanation. Maybe a better one.<p>The only other connection I can make is that migraines are closely correlated with dry eyes (and emotion can trigger migraines.) So people with migraines are sometimes advised to use eyedrops to reduce migraine incidence these days. Lacrimation is also a migraine symptom. If your brain is very active due to emotion, maybe tears help to reduce the chances that migraines result? (Or returning to the first hypothesis, maybe CSF pressure is elevated during migraines.)<p>Not a disproof, but chimps are more socially sacrificing than this article indicates, they will find crippled chimps for long periods, as a group; IIRC not just relatives.
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wcdolphin大约 8 年前
How does this theory explain the act of crying in private?<p>The theory explains why someone would want not to cry in front of people (loss of prestige&#x2F;dominance), but not why someone would want to cry alone, in private.
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caublestone大约 8 年前
Our expression of grief is probably a result of a mutation that altered the structure of our amygdala so that fear controls brain chemistry less than our primate ancestor. When an animal is in fear, chemical reactions desensitize and suppress brain activity involved in emotional expression to protect the self from being perceived as weak and dedicate brain energy to motor functions.<p>Looking at tears and the neurological development from genetics through adulthood would be a great way to understand what makes us human.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC2871162&#x2F;#!po=29.8450" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC2871162&#x2F;#!po=29...</a>
woodandsteel大约 8 年前
It seems to me that crying often produces a cognitive process. So I feel sad about something and feel I can&#x27;t do anything about it and cry, and after a while I don&#x27;t feel so sad and see the situation in a different perspective where I can go on living. Or something distressing happens, and I talk about it and cry some, and after a while I feel better.<p>This seems to be a different sort of situation than crying to get help with an immediate situation. I wonder if that sort of case evolved first, and then got modified and used for the cognitive processing one.
waderyan大约 8 年前
I have a two year old son. As you can imagine he cries a lot. Lately we have been applying some EQ lessons we&#x27;ve learned and have tried to teach him to be aware of how he feels when he cries. You&#x27;d be surprised he&#x27;s actually pretty good.<p>He starts to cry and then says &quot;I&#x27;m crying.&quot; We acknowledge that he is crying by saying something like &quot;You seem sad.&quot; He generally stops crying at that point and we move on. Its like the signal was sent and received. He feels heard.
gfosco大约 8 年前
Interesting article, still a lot of unanswered questions and open areas for discussion...<p>Most of my life, I was pretty unemotional. I didn&#x27;t cry watching movies or TV, and even personal matters never brought me to tears. At some point, just shy of 30 years old, everything changed. I was always empathetic, but, that went in to overdrive... Seeing someone else cry or watching a powerful moment on TV can trigger an instant welling of emotion.
msluyter大约 8 年前
I recall Scott Alexander (slatestarcodex.com) proposing the tears&#x2F;bullying hypothesis somewhere, but I can&#x27;t seem to find it at the moment.
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dwringer大约 8 年前
Could tears be there for some kind of moderating effect on cellular action potentials? Tears are notoriously salty; &quot;salty&quot; has even become synonymous with bitterness, angst, or remorse. I think their production does seem to have a noticeable effect on cognition, but for all I know it&#x27;s just a coincidence. Certainly they would extract sodium from the body to some degree, I just wonder how much of an effect that would have.<p>EDIT: here is a vaguely-relevant(?) study from 2014 about an infant presenting with inconsolable crying allegedly because of &quot;an alteration of sodium channels inducing neuropathy in small-caliber fibers&quot; (1)<p>EDIT 2: As for why this is something that happens from the eyes specifically, I wonder if it is for a particular local effect on ion channels in the frontal lobes.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pubmed&#x2F;24468061" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pubmed&#x2F;24468061</a>
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mannigfaltig大约 8 年前
There seems to be a very interesting book in the making by the same author and in a similar vein of this article. The website says it will be finished at the beginning of 2018:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;elephantinthebrain.com&#x2F;outline.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;elephantinthebrain.com&#x2F;outline.html</a>
urs2102大约 8 年前
Curious if anyone knows anything about the similarities&#x2F;differences between human crying and dog whining?
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speby大约 8 年前
Definitely queues up Terminator 2: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=eSotD5M3bsY" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=eSotD5M3bsY</a>
uptownfunk大约 8 年前
A bit of an odd article. I normally equate crying as grieving, viz a combined physical and psychological reaction to some external distress. Here it seems the author is fundamentally concerned with crying as the purely physical response of &#x27;tearing&#x27; which I don&#x27;t know if it really makes sense to breakdown that way. Nonetheless, an interesting piece and written by a fellow Cal Bear as well.
i336_大约 8 年前
Possibly tangentially related:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;robinwe.is&#x2F;explorations&#x2F;cry.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;robinwe.is&#x2F;explorations&#x2F;cry.html</a><p>-&gt; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11787083" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11787083</a>
ldehaan大约 8 年前
Most of the things in this list are not specific to humans.<p>Interesting idea + bad research = fake news<p>this needs to stop so badly.
sushobhan大约 8 年前
I hope someday I&#x27;ll read such detail research on when and how we evolve to lie. It always fascinated me, when this starts and how it propagates from one generation to another. I&#x27;m almost sure, it&#x27;s the most unique human trait.
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csomar大约 8 年前
Is he sure that only humans cry? I can perfectly remember my dog (RIP) crying with tears when I lock him up in a cage (sometimes we need to lock him up because he is too friendly to visitors).
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empressplay大约 8 年前
Article is wrong. Crying is cathartic.