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VPNs Are Absolutely a Solution to a Policy Problem

385 点作者 mobitar大约 8 年前

50 条评论

mundo大约 8 年前
Well allow me to retort.<p>This article is saying, basically, that the tendency of ISPs to try to monetize user data is a natural consequence of capitalism, and trying to curb that tendency with legislation is ineffectual compared to the <i>real</i> solutions (fight monopolies, and everyone use a VPN).<p>I don&#x27;t buy it. Roughly the same argument could be made about virtually any regulation. &quot;Corporations are incentivized to pollute, so there&#x27;s no point trying to stop them. Buy a water filter.&quot; &quot;People will always try to get heroin, so there&#x27;s no point in restricting it. Get some naloxone.&quot; Damn near <i>every</i> regulation is an attempt to counteract some profit-motivated tendency which is the unfortunate consequence of capitalism. And as regulations go, user data is a lot easier to regulate than drugs or pollution.<p>&quot;Just get a VPN&quot; might be good advice for individuals, but it is emphatically not the society-wide solution to data privacy. We can and should continue to fight for good legislation that protects us.
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wavefunction大约 8 年前
The only thing is, I shouldn&#x27;t have to pay for a VPN to continue enjoying some measure of privacy when I&#x27;m paying for the ISP&#x27;s service. This is just some MBA&#x27;s &quot;great idea&quot; to &quot;leverage previously untapped revenue sources&quot; rather than a real need by struggling firms grasping at any life-line.<p>It&#x27;s disgusting, and I&#x27;m disgusted (_yet again_) by the mercenary Republican Party. They are declaring war on me and my loved ones and the vast majority of our fellow Americans and anyone else unfortunate to have to use an internet connection in the US (and live under the rest of their insane policies).<p>For the record, I signed up for a personal VPN two weeks ago because this anti-consumer outcome was assured with the current party in power in the US.
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eterm大约 8 年前
I&#x27;m not sure how VPNs are a solution.<p>Politically, it means that people who should be getting angry about reduced privacy are &quot;comfortable&quot; with the fact they can work around it, while a new generation grows up with fewer and fewer expectations of what privacy means. It&#x27;s short term protection in return for normalization of anti-private behaviours and long term damage.<p>But I also have a problem with it technically:<p>Issue: You don&#x27;t trust ISPs to not sell browsing history.<p>Solution? Provision a virtual server, set-up a VPN and tunnel.<p>But your server still has a service provider. It might not be literally tied to your billing information but that was never going to be anyway.<p>You&#x27;ve shifted which ISP gets to sell the data from &quot;home provider&quot; to &quot;virtual server provider&quot;, but there is still browsing data isn&#x27;t there and it&#x27;s just as valuable from a private single-use VPN as it is from your home connection.
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alistproducer2大约 8 年前
So I was a call-in on NPR today (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wbur.org&#x2F;onpoint&#x2F;2017&#x2F;03&#x2F;29&#x2F;internet-privacy-congress" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wbur.org&#x2F;onpoint&#x2F;2017&#x2F;03&#x2F;29&#x2F;internet-privacy-cong...</a>) that discussed the ISP privacy issue. I brought up the crowd funding initiatives to buy Republican&#x27;s info as well as the Democrat&#x27;s unwillingness to make use of this issue. The call-ins were unanimously against what the congress did.<p>edit: Here&#x27;s the GofundMe trying to raise money to buy their Internet history. Something tells me this dude is going to run off with the money though<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;resistancereport.com&#x2F;resistance&#x2F;crowdfunding-lawmakers-internet&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;resistancereport.com&#x2F;resistance&#x2F;crowdfunding-lawmaker...</a>
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slg大约 8 年前
&gt;Other articles have argued that VPNs are not a solution to a policy problem, because you can’t necessarily trust a VPN provider, or some VPN providers don’t encrypt your data properly. That may be the case, but that’s an easily solvable problem. And there are no monopolies on VPNs. This is something that a market economy can solve in a year.<p>It has been a few years since my Econ 101 class, but I suggest the author Google &quot;market for lemons&quot;. Users have no way to verify the intentions of VPN providers as there is natural information asymmetry. Trust is not an issue that market economies have come up with a good solution to fix. The solution we often use ironically enough happens to be policy and regulation. So maybe this is a policy problem.
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loteck大约 8 年前
Everybody is right. It doesn&#x27;t have to be either-or.<p>You can select a paid VPN service that helps protect you from specific adversaries. You can roll your own VPN on your own VPS that helps protect you in some use cases.<p>You can, and should, advocate for good privacy policy.
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nawitus大约 8 年前
&quot;That may be the case, but that’s an easily solvable problem.&quot;<p>So, how is that problem solved? I can&#x27;t see what VPN companies are really doing inside their stack. They might very well be logging everything and I have no way to find out other than to &quot;trust them&quot; - so there&#x27;s no real market mechanism to choose a VPN provider which doesn&#x27;t log anything.<p>I suppose it could be in the contract.. so does VPN contracts have a clause like that, and how is it enforced?
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danellis大约 8 年前
&quot;Companies selling your data is nothing new—Facebook and Google have been doing it for decades.&quot;<p>Is there any evidence for this? I&#x27;m pretty sure that in the case of Google, at least, it&#x27;s a flat-out lie. In fact, they state in massive letters: &quot;We do not sell your personal information to anyone.&quot; (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;privacy.google.com&#x2F;how-ads-work.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;privacy.google.com&#x2F;how-ads-work.html</a>) Who would they even sell it to? They&#x27;re at an advantage having that data themselves.
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int_19h大约 8 年前
Allow me to rephrase this entire debate in terms that might sound more familiar.<p>Point: Locked doors and a shotgun under the bed is not a solution to the violent crime problem. We also need laws, and police to enforce them.<p>Counterpoint: Locked doors and a shotgun under the bed is absolutely a solution to the violent crime problem. You can&#x27;t rely on laws, because they can easily go away with a stroke of the pen.
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jkern大约 8 年前
Instead of using a VPN I think I&#x27;m just going to create a script that randomly requests various websites 24&#x2F;7. So don&#x27;t cut off the signal to your ISP just drown it in a lot of meaningless noise
Nightshaxx大约 8 年前
As great as this is, it brings up two problems:<p>1. VPNs are slow: They will never get widespread adoption because people pay for internet speeds and want them. Not to mention many people use internet that is so slow that VPNs are just not viable. I try to use a VPN at least when I go on public WiFi, but I&#x27;ve been to hotels were the service was so slow that the internet would just not work while using a VPN.<p>2. The article encourages ad blocking. The problem is that a lot of the web relies on ad revenue. Content doesn&#x27;t just produce itself without funding. Yes, most content creators are finding alternate means of getting money, but we still need to keep in mind that this is an issue.<p>Therefore, while VPNs and Adblockers can help, I just don&#x27;t see them as viable enough strategy to take down the ISPs. You are both slowing the user&#x27;s ability to get content and the creator&#x27;s ability to make it. Yes, the privacy focused community can use these tools, but everyone knew we liked privacy already. It isn&#x27;t until the mainstream users speak up or do something that we can get stuff done.
ebbv大约 8 年前
This article is really bad. On the one hand it says government is unreliable and therefore it&#x27;s hopeless to regulate. Then it immediately argues we need to break the ISP monopolies (which is true.) But why are there monopolies? It is because the ISPs collude not because there is regulation stopping new ISPs. Google and Verizon both dipped their toes in and gave up on providing wired access to the home.<p>The only way to break the monopolies is with government regulation forcing them to share the lines, because running the lines is the very costly part that stops new ISPs from competing.
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silveira大约 8 年前
Please, at least give credit the artist creator of the illustration, Josan Gonzalez.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;f1x-2.deviantart.com&#x2F;art&#x2F;Robo-President-K3n3-DY-IV-628607986" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;f1x-2.deviantart.com&#x2F;art&#x2F;Robo-President-K3n3-DY-IV-62...</a>
Lagged2Death大约 8 年前
<i>And it’s so damn lucrative that ISPs are crying, No fair! I want a piece of that too! Are they not entitled to pursue such an opportunity?</i><p>If they give me the broadband access <i>for free</i> then I might feel some sympathy for this line of argument. At 97% profit margins, not so much.<p>Funny how &quot;entitlement&quot; can be a positive thing when it describes a rich, powerful entity but a negative thing when it describes someone or something more ordinary.
manor大约 8 年前
Classic libertarian fallacy: “every resource should be managed by markets and every problem solved by the marketplace”. Except, the Internet is not a commodity, it’s infrastructure: it’s not a car, it’s the road. For consumer fluff — sure, go the libertarian route (“shop around”), but for things that really matter, like infrastructure and healthcare, don’t look for trivial market-based solutions…
pkulak大约 8 年前
Does anyone know of some kind of appliance I can sit in front of my router that will put all the traffic in my house through a VPN? I run OpenWRT, so I think it&#x27;s possible to do it there, but I think it would be easier to make it it&#x27;s own thing.<p>Whitelisting would be nice too. Netflix video traffic, for example, would be nice to not put through another hop.
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Overtonwindow大约 8 年前
Just getting a VPN is like a teacher telling a bullied student to &quot;just ignore and move away&quot;. Sounds great in theory, but really doesn&#x27;t work for everyone in the real world. Some day, when wireless solutions get really good, or the cable monopolies are broken, pro-privacy will be a selling point.
hluska大约 8 年前
I enjoyed this article until I came to this paragraph:<p>&gt; Other articles have argued that VPNs are not a solution to a policy problem, because you can’t necessarily trust a VPN provider, or some VPN providers don’t encrypt your data properly. That may be the case, but that’s an easily solvable problem. And there are no monopolies on VPNs. This is something that a market economy can solve in a year.<p>That&#x27;s where the author lost me. Building a secure VPN is different than your run of the mill SAAS - it&#x27;s a difficult security problem, and an incredibly complicated user problem.<p>On the security side, it isn&#x27;t hard to make a mistake that will give motivated parties the hole they need to crack the VPN. On a business side, it&#x27;s hard to know which companies have received lucrative deals (or national security letters) from three letter agencies. And from a communications side, it&#x27;s damned near impossible to let the whole world know that VPN Provider A collects data for a three letter agency.<p>Sorry to say it folks, but this is an area where we either need wholesale political change, or technological change. I&#x27;m Canadian, so I can&#x27;t help you with the first one and I&#x27;m not even remotely qualified to help with the second.
haddr大约 8 年前
Couldn&#x27;t disagree more with this article. VPN is a solution to a policy problem until policy makers forbid VPN to enforce their core idea in the first place. (e.g. see United Arab Emirates for some restrictions of VPN use)
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Exuma大约 8 年前
In my home, Comcast business uses IPv6. So far, no VPN supports this, and I haven&#x27;t found proper answers on how to handle this?<p>I&#x27;ve heard I can just &quot;disable IPv6&quot; on my Mac, but I don&#x27;t know the full implications of this. If anyone has any input I&#x27;d appreciate this, because then I would use a VPN all the time.<p><i></i>EDIT<i></i> Sorry I meant to type VPN not VPS, stupid typo.
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mtgx大约 8 年前
At least until they overturn the net neutrality rules, too, and then the ISPs will be able to throttle VPN services to make them unusable. Or perhaps they&#x27;ll ask them to pay more for the &quot;fast line&quot;, and VPNs may get too expensive for most people.<p>How do you solve the problem without policy then?
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norea-armozel大约 8 年前
In regards to the question of ISPs selling browsing history, how much of that data outside of law enforcement has ever led to profitable sales from consumers? Like honestly, I&#x27;ve never ever been swayed by a web advert. If anything, they&#x27;ve made me disgusted with the advertiser and made me delay any purchases. Plus, most of the web ads as they are now are just boring repeats of the same product I&#x27;ve searched on Amazon or Google. No related products, no accessories (I bought a telescope recently so I find it odd that no one is trying to hawk eye pieces or filters for the coming solar eclipse). Just the same dumb product I&#x27;ve ALREADY BOUGHT! Like I can&#x27;t imagine the profit margins on data mining are all that significant if my intuition holds true.
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logicallee大约 8 年前
I advocated for Google to please do this here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=13983468" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=13983468</a><p>I&#x27;ll quote it in full:<p>&gt;Hey Google, when all email providers sucked you fixed it with Gmail, you run a DNS at 8.8.8.8, and now -- now, I think you know what you need to do now :)<p>&gt;(I personally recommend you also do a web-based proxy, because who is going to filter <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com</a> now or in the future?)<p>&gt;I believe in you. You can do it!<p>&gt;Counter this chilling effect today - and show more adwords as a result. (There is no irony in this statement. I mean from web sites that opt into adwords, not from selling VPN traffic logs.)<p>----<p>Google, pay attention: step up to the plate. Please!
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JoshMnem大约 8 年前
&gt; &quot;You own the computer from which all your valuable data is generated.&quot;<p>That might be true at the moment, if you&#x27;re using a good computer, but many computers do not provide full access to the system, including: Android, iOS, Windows 10. (Almost all mobile devices block root access as much as they can.)<p>Watch out for attempts to appify the WWW and reduce the ability of consumers to block ads and tracking: AMP, FB Instant Articles, etc.<p>One of the most dangerous threats to privacy is the increasing restriction on access to devices&#x27; hardware and software. If it isn&#x27;t stopped, there won&#x27;t be any way to block tracking.
lexicality大约 8 年前
I like that they say &quot;Don’t use sites that force you to disable your ad blocker&quot; and then link to a Wired article.
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TheRealPomax大约 8 年前
Correct me if I&#x27;m wrong, but aren&#x27;t ISP already monetizing on my data by the fact that I _literally pay them for their data services_? So no: an ISP going &quot;I want a piece of that behavioural profiling ads money&quot; is most absolutely not reasonable.<p>If you want to be in the ad business, stop being an ISP and go into the ad business, but if you&#x27;re providing a service and that service is internet-for-pay, and we pay you the money you have said it costs to use your service, then it is not reasonable for you to complain that there is more money to be had, and you want all of it.
biafra大约 8 年前
Are telephone providers in the US allowed to sell the data about who you called when, how often and how long? If not, why not? Should be possible to monetize that.
shmerl大约 8 年前
Not a solution, rather a workaround. VPNs reduce performance, and they aren&#x27;t free either. The idea of privacy abusers is to to tax those who value it.
nickpsecurity大约 8 年前
The author screws up big on the VPN vs government issue. Let me illustrate the points made.<p>1. The government&#x27;s laws&#x2F;policies are a threat to users&#x27; privacy.<p>2. You can currently use VPN&#x27;s to protect your privacy.<p>3. People point out that the VPN&#x27;s might lie to you willingly or under compulsion by LEO&#x27;s w&#x2F; existing surveillance legislation. The same LEO&#x27;s that Snowden leaks say compelled secret backdoors in all kinds of products and services.<p>4. &quot;That may be the case, but it&#x27;s an easily solvable problem.&quot;<p>Lol. If it was so easy, we wouldn&#x27;t have a surveillance state or it would be well-regulated based on GAO&#x27;s reports. Instead, we do have one, VPN providers might be compelled by it, market choice doesn&#x27;t change that, and you&#x27;re still essentially hoping via a numbers game that you don&#x27;t pick a bad one. This isn&#x27;t even considering the fact that ISP&#x27;s beholden to US TLA&#x27;s might ban VPN&#x27;s or require their assistance for decryption&#x2F;tracking.<p>The VPN&#x27;s could be a decent solution if a very popular one was a non-profit in a non-surveillance state with protections for consumers built into its charter, contract, whatever. People who were previously shown trustworthy [enough] would have to operate it. The endpoints and monitoring would have to be strong. It would need enough traffic from each country to obscure the users. If it wasn&#x27;t getting enough, they could pull trick from high-assurance&#x27;s book to do fixed-rate, fixed-sized transmission constantly from the apps. That would get expensive on bandwidth side, though.<p>So, it&#x27;s doable to make VPN&#x27;s useful until law or ISP policies start killing them. Just hard to evaluate who if any are doing all the above to be trustworthy enough. For now, you&#x27;re throwing dice for a probabilistic level of protection that&#x27;s hard to quantify.
blitmap大约 8 年前
I think I might be a little outdated on my knowledge of VPNs, but wouldn&#x27;t they throw inefficiency into how your traffic is routed around the internet? It&#x27;s not like you&#x27;re going for the most efficient exit out of the VPN closest to your intended target, simply the one advertised as a gateway.<p>VPNs may be a solution to privacy issues, but the whole Internet will be worse for it if everyone were to use one.<p>I wish we could quantify how much electricity is wasted just routing things around inefficiently from VPNs. How much infrastructure must be upgraded because of the growing use of them. Maybe this would incent ISPs to avoid selling analytic data on its customers?
twhb大约 8 年前
ISPs should calculate how much this will make them then charge us that much to opt out. Wins all around - the ISP makes every dime they can, privacy-conscious customers aren&#x27;t abused, unconscious customers don&#x27;t need to pay more.<p>Hell, take it a step farther - sell VPN-like anonymization. Think about it, your ISP is technically able to do it far better than any VPN: no impact on speed, no impact on latency, no software required, wouldn&#x27;t miss any types of traffic, and increases anonymity just by having more customers.<p>If ISPs don&#x27;t realize that they can make money selling privacy then they&#x27;re just bad businesses.
thrillgore大约 8 年前
No, they&#x27;re not. They&#x27;re a temporary hack.<p>I really believe that engineers live with the belief that &quot;We can work around politics or route around corruption&quot; that only makes us better off. There are many more people who don&#x27;t have the knowledge to work around it. No amount of engineering is going to educate or move a change in policy. You&#x27;re essentially saying &quot;I&#x27;ve got mine, so fuck you.&quot;<p>With that being said, given that VPNs are the only practical chance until the software developers of the world start running for Congress, I have gone ahead and paid ipredator for the next two years.
joshuas大约 8 年前
Is there a reason that instead of using a VPN to hide our traffic we don&#x27;t just have an app that surfs randomly around the net in the background ruining the usefulness of the data collected in the first place?
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Joeri大约 8 年前
VPN&#x27;s are a way for you to choose which provider&#x27;s or country&#x27;s policies you want to be under. Obviously this can only happen as long as the powers that be allow it. It is trivial to forbid or block all non-backdoored vpn&#x27;s for example.<p>A question which I find interesting is why we can&#x27;t make these policy choices in the real world. For example, choose which country&#x27;s social safety net you want and be taxed accordingly. It may be impractical, but are rivers and mountain slopes (aka borders) really the best way to draw a line between two different policies?
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peeters大约 8 年前
I use a VPN and agree it&#x27;s a solution, but imagine this same line of thinking were applied to telephone lines. What if tomorrow, we removed all regulation preventing telephone providers from scraping your conversations or selling them to the highest bidder.<p>How fast would the market be able to respond, and what kind of damage would be done in the meantime?<p>We regulate based on the public interest. It was in the public interest to place limits on telecom. I don&#x27;t see any reason to treat the Internet differently.
Glyptodon大约 8 年前
How do I do know what VPN to trust? I guess getting my own server and provisioning everything myself is the answer? I&#x27;m sure that&#x27;ll work fine for average Joe.
tomjen3大约 8 年前
VPNs are one solution, it may even be the only possible solution, but I really can&#x27;t see it as a good solution.<p>It is super important to keep in mind of course that there may indeed be no good solution, or it may be that the good solution is politically, economically or otherwise unfeasible. In this case a good solution is technically very feasible, but that may often not be the case.
myrandomcomment大约 8 年前
I am just going to write an app to pull random (safe) items every few minutes and poison all the data. Even better, I will have it hit news sites all over the world in different languages and load Amazon and eBay from other countries also. Hum, why I am at it I will have it swap the web browser agent IDs. Hey this could be a fun project.
dreamcompiler大约 8 年前
Completely agree. All we need now is for a major player to step up and say &quot;here&#x27;s our VPN cloud and it&#x27;s free to use and we guarantee it&#x27;s encrypted and won&#x27;t keep logs. From now on, all our devices will use it by default unless you opt out.&quot; I imagine meetings are already being held at Apple to discuss this.
codezero大约 8 年前
My vpn doesn&#x27;t prevent my cell provider from selling my location info.
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nu2ycombinator大约 8 年前
I am trying to understand here, what more information ISPs can get other than they have access now? Does this policy let them do man middle attack? Can they access my SSL internet data too?
peteyPete大约 8 年前
Federal statute known as 18 USC Section 1702 makes it illegal to open correspondence addressed to someone else. I don&#x27;t know that the mail services keep statistics of where mail comes from and to, although they likely do, but regardless, they don&#x27;t get to know what the content is. They don&#x27;t get to know what I buy from Amazon.. But they do know I shop at Amazon because they see the boxes. ISPs might be able to know you hit these servers but they shouldn&#x27;t be profiling you based on all your browsing data.<p>If another person can&#x27;t open your mail, then why is it so hard for lawmakers to understand that this adds up to the same? You route my mail&#x2F;traffic, doesn&#x27;t give you the right to spy into the contents of it, to know what I buy, what media I consume, what my hobbies are, how often I check my bank balances, whether or not I&#x27;m left or right leaning based on the news I consume, whether or not I&#x27;m shopping for internet at competing ISPs... List goes on. Imagine the depth of the information an ISP can build on you if they have all your browsing information.<p>The lack of respect shown towards the people who have made these companies possible by buying their services is appalling. And the fact that they keep competition away is even worse.<p>Provide your services and stop trying to suck in every penny from every potential revenue stream possible.<p>To make a comparison, just because my car has GPS, doesn&#x27;t mean the manufacturer should track and sell my location and build a megacorp ads company to interrupt my radio and force me to listen to ads for businesses in my direct vicinity.<p>Just because you make shoes, and you could integrate piezoelectric energy capture devices, doesn&#x27;t mean you should integrate tracking devices into people&#x27;s shoes so you can sell the data to who ever wants it.<p>Just because you provide a service and because you&#x27;ve squashed competition by lobbying for everything which gives you monopoly, doesn&#x27;t mean you should drop all sense of right and wrong.<p>There&#x27;s countless business models which could abuse data collection and make a few extra bucks, but they don&#x27;t. Because you don&#x27;t always have to be a dick. Because at the end of the day, a businesses image should still be important because it is USUALLY what decides if consumers will keep on buying from them or not.. Unless there&#x27;s no competition....<p>This by itself is big enough although some will argue its not a big deal. But once you remove all protections, you have no clue how far they&#x27;ll go and once they go there, its harder to backtrack.
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matt_wulfeck大约 8 年前
It&#x27;s not a solution for one simple reason: policymakers can create a &quot;policy&quot; that simply makes them illegal. They don&#x27;t have to defeat them on technological grounds.
doggydogs94大约 8 年前
I just wish that my bandwidth did not drop so bad when I use a VPN.
Stephen-E大约 8 年前
Any recommendations for a secure, fast and reliable VPN service? I&#x27;m in the US. Use would be for privacy, especially in the face of yesterday&#x27;s vote.
innocentoldguy大约 8 年前
I prefer to tunnel my traffic through an SSH tunnel. VPNs are OK too, but SSH does what I want, and I can control it.
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spangry大约 8 年前
While using VPNs might protect your privacy in the short-run, it&#x27;s just a continuation of the privacy-invasion arms race. And it&#x27;s kinda hard to win a tit-for-tat war when your opponent has an unlimited supply of &#x27;tat&#x27;, and a whole bunch of armed, well-trained dudes they can send round to your house when you don&#x27;t comply with their newest rule.<p>- The US government tries to restrict &#x27;strong&#x27; crypto --&gt; people print PGP source code on t-shirts and the government eventually has to accept SSL&#x2F;TLS.<p>- The government starts capturing information directly off devices (using regular search warrants etc. --&gt; people start using encryption (e.g. truecrypt, veracrypt) and large device makers respond to consumer concerns by encrypting by default.<p>- The government starts MiTM&#x27;ing everyone&#x27;s traffic at the ISP and online service provider (e.g. google, microsoft) level, using their newly created pseudo-court, secret warrant process (FISA) --&gt; people start using VPNs.<p>- The government starts talking about key escrow, banning encryption.....<p>You can&#x27;t eradicate a disease by just treating the symptoms as they pop up (in ever increasing severity). If you do this, you&#x27;ll die. You have to attack the disease directly (and, in many cases, first convince people that they really are ill). So far, we&#x27;ve made one attempt at the direct approach by &#x27;engaging in public discourse&#x27;. It&#x27;s clear this is not effective in this case.<p>I doubt protesting in the streets would make much of a difference either, if the lead up to the Iraq war is anything to go by. Consider these two quotes from the previous thread (the second is mine), as just one example of the many possible actions that could be taken:<p><i>&quot;The Video Privacy Protection Act was passed after Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork&#x27;s rental history was leaked to a newspaper.&quot;</i><p>and<p><i>&quot;I&#x27;ve always liked the idea of using the copious public video of these politicians to train voice and face recognition NNs, specifically targeting anti-privacy politicians. Maybe even sell pre-made raspberry pis with all of this stuff preloaded for journalists to scatter around places that politicians congregate.<p>I think it&#x27;s only fair that these folks get to be the first ones to live in the kind of world they are creating. And none of them should have a problem with any of this, because I&#x27;m certain none of them ever do anything wrong and therefore have nothing to hide.&quot;</i><p>Although one always tends to like one&#x27;s own ideas, I think this idea has merit, because:<p>- It&#x27;s low effort compared to organising protests and then getting everyone to take to the streets<p>- It directly attacks the source and (assuming you aren&#x27;t sent to a Federally funded leisure resort for your efforts), creates a &#x27;heads I win, tails you lose&#x27; situation: they either pass laws to stop this kind of privacy invasion, or we end up with a long-term selective pressure against anti-privacy politicians. Everyone has secrets...<p>- It directly educates the public about their &quot;illness&quot; (through example). It shows them exactly how their life could be in the near future if they don&#x27;t start paying serious attention to privacy issues. If a bunch of angry nerds can pull it off, imagine what the NSA and CIA are capable of...<p>The time for &#x27;reasoned public discourse&#x27; and &#x27;teching around the problem&#x27; is well and truly over. It doesn&#x27;t hurt to do these things, but it does no good in the long-run either. More drastic measures are required.
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XnoiVeX大约 8 年前
How many of you actually read the original FCC document? :-)
893helios大约 8 年前
Technology is rarely a solution for a socio-ecnomic issue.
clvx大约 8 年前
Ok, can you route every connection(besides the vpn one) from an iphone to a vpn gateway?<p>If it isn&#x27;t possible, anyone can explain why?
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