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A Thank-You Note to the Hacker News Community from Ubuntu

786 点作者 dustinkirkland大约 8 年前

38 条评论

tie_大约 8 年前
I have a strong dislike for systemd, so while I&#x27;m really sorry that upstart &quot;lost&quot; the fight, Ubuntu gained a lot of respect in my eyes with the decision to go with the rest and avoid unnecessary fragmentation. This could have <i>easily</i> ended up another as another community rift, slowing down everybody along the way.<p>Now they do it again with Wayland&#x2F;Mir! It actually takes a significant amount of both balls and goodwill to give up on the product that you invested so much into for the sake of aligning better with your open source community. Bravo!<p>FWIW, I too would like to keep the DE experience of Unity, and especially the Dash panel and shortcuts. If that expose-text-search could scan non-focused browser tabs that would be a killer feature, but that&#x27;s for the other thread.<p>The idea of &quot;Let&#x27;s simply ask HN users what they think&quot; is a gem, that I suspect will now make it into many PMs&#x27; playbooks ;)
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zserge大约 8 年前
I believe that the major pitfall here is that the feedback you&#x27;ve received is mostly about the changes that people want to see. However if we consider the number of people who want Gnome vs the number of those who want Unity 8 vs the number of conservative users who like Unity 7 as it is now - the results might be different.<p>I personally am very happy with the current Unity. I find it intuitive and more aesthetically pleasant&#x2F;polished than Gnome Shell (I&#x27;ve only used that as it comes with Ubuntu Gnome).<p>So please, don&#x27;t drop current Unity. Or if you have to switch to Gnome Shell - please keep the user experience as close as possible to the current Unity to help users migrate.
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josteink大约 8 年前
Awesome to see our response followed with such attention, not to mention feedback with concrete promises about what (and what not) to expect dealt with.<p>Good job, Canonical! Happy to be a user!<p>(And good job finally ditching Mir. You could have kept Unity for all I care. Linux can handle a few dozen DEs. But having more than one display server, now that was just nuts.)<p>Edit: while the feedback post here may have been the most discussed post on HN ever, the announcement of dropping Mir clearly made rumbles too, with a record 10,000+ upvotes in a &quot;niche&quot; subreddit like &#x2F;r&#x2F;linux. When a player like Ubuntu does the right thing, people clearly <i>care</i>.
icc97大约 8 年前
&gt; Official hardware that just-works, Nexus-of-Ubuntu (130 weight)<p>I really like this one. I&#x27;d made comments of wanting pre-installed Linux, but the Nexus concept is a much better idea. It&#x27;s following a model that seems to have worked well for Google.<p>It&#x27;s a fantastic way to break the chicken and egg situation of getting pre-installed Linux available.
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DoofusOfDeath大约 8 年前
Hey Dustin, thanks for the follow-up!<p>In your original story, I posted a request for Canonical to come up with <i>some</i> viable strategy to get Adobe CS (and related color-calibration HW&#x2F;SW) usable on Ubuntu.<p>I expected a lot of traction for that suggestion, because AFAICT a lot of creative professionals are looking for a way to escape the Windows&#x2F;Mac duopoly.<p>However, it looks like my suggestion didn&#x27;t make the cut for the list you just posted.<p>Can you share any thoughts on why getting Adobe CS usable on Ubuntu is &#x2F; isn&#x27;t a strategic priority for Canonical?
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apexalpha大约 8 年前
A sincere thank you to Ubuntu from someone who didn&#x27;t study anything remotely close to IT but is now a software engineer anyway.<p>I&#x27;ve always been interested in software and computers in general and, besides with the raspberry pi, I think Ubuntu has been the biggest influence on my interest in software and decision to learn programming.<p>A few months back I looked up my first ever forum post. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gathering.tweakers.net&#x2F;forum&#x2F;list_message&#x2F;28824598#28824598" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gathering.tweakers.net&#x2F;forum&#x2F;list_message&#x2F;28824598#2...</a><p>Asking why my PC wouldn&#x27;t boot after 14 year old me stuck some components, including the HDD, in another pc. Turned out you needed something called &#x27;drivers&#x27; to run a motherboard.<p>Shortly after this I ordered my first red Ubuntu live CD that you guys shipped and that was my first experience with Linux.<p>Anyway, open source projects that allow you to thinker with software and even break it played an important role in my life, and Ubuntu was my doorway to a decade of learning, playing and wonder about software and technology.<p>Running 1604 LTS now. Sad that you guys are dropping Unity for GNome but still happy with Ubuntu. I&#x27;m sure it&#x27;ll work out.<p>Thanks, and good luck.
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mi100hael大约 8 年前
<i>&gt; Add night mode, redshift, f.lux (42 weight) This request is one of the real gems of this whole exercise! This seems like a nice, little, bite-sized feature, that we may be able include with minimal additional effort. Great find.</i><p>This one should come for free with the switch to Gnome, since it&#x27;s now present in 3.24. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gnome.org&#x2F;news&#x2F;2017&#x2F;03&#x2F;gnome-3-24-released&#x2F;attachment&#x2F;night-light&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gnome.org&#x2F;news&#x2F;2017&#x2F;03&#x2F;gnome-3-24-released&#x2F;attac...</a>
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mschuster91大约 8 年前
Ad &quot;LDAP&#x2F;AD integration&quot;:<p>&gt; This is actually a regular request of Canonical&#x27;s corporate Ubuntu Desktop customers. We&#x27;re generally able to meet the needs of our enterprise customers around LDAP and ActiveDirectory authentication. We&#x27;ll look at what else we can do natively in the distro to improve this.<p>OK I get the need that some may have to integrate an UI but please don&#x27;t ship a full-blown Samba&#x2F;winbindd plus config generator as default.<p>Here&#x27;s the why:<p>Everyone has different LDAP setups. Some use a homegrown LDAP, some use MS AD in varying versions, some use Samba as AD in varying versions - and then everyone uses a different LDAP&#x2F;AD scheme (e.g. is the username attribute lowercase-able, which attribute is it mapped to, are all PCs&#x2F;users in a single OU, do you want to restrict logins to specific groups, does the organization need &quot;full&quot; AD setup or will a plain ldap_bind be sufficient ...) and you almost always need to hand-tune the configuration for your specific setup. A GUI configurator will most likely only work OOTB for people sticking with a standard MS AD, and make problems with non-standard setups, multi-domain memberships or similar.<p>And: Non-enterprise users will most likely not need AD&#x2F;LDAP support. Those who do should have competent admins anyhow, but what I can certainly say is that the documentation could be updated (e.g. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.ubuntuusers.de&#x2F;Samba_Winbind&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.ubuntuusers.de&#x2F;Samba_Winbind&#x2F;</a> only works for 12.04&#x2F;14.04). I&#x27;d rather like if the documentation were improved than yet another shoddy Samba config generator that&#x27;s falling out of sync with Samba more sooner than later...<p>(source: lost more than a few hairs wrestling with AD and LDAP)
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padraic7a大约 8 年前
There&#x27;s something very HN about the fact that the author of one of the most discussed posts in the site&#x27;s history can issue a follow up post, dealing with that discussion, to such little notice.
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JepZ大约 8 年前
I also really like the idea of &#x27;Official hardware that just-works&#x27;. Not just for users without much technical knowledge but also for the rest of us.<p>I mean nowadays we somehow manage to get most hardware working &#x27;somehow&#x27;. Sometimes it takes a few years before your sound&#x2F;bluetooth&#x2F;wifi chip actually does what it is supposed to do, but most of the time we find ways to make use of our hardware.<p>But when you are going to buy new hardware you are a bit lost. You can try to find out if there are any major problems with some hardware, search the ubuntu hardware database, but especially for new, rare or expensive hardware there is often not so much to find about. For example a few years ago I bought a 22&quot; touchscreen for my desktop and for almost a year it somehow worked but didn&#x27;t do the things it was supposed to do.<p>Officially supported hardware by vendors would be a great step in the right direction.
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Andrex大约 8 年前
I feel guilty: I didn&#x27;t respond on the initial post because I doubted the <i>really</i> outrageous&#x2F;far-out ideas like &quot;dump everything you&#x27;ve been working on for the past five years&quot; would actually be fruitful, but man, Shuttleworth shut me right up haha. Congrats on the Ubuntu team for the courage to make bold changes when necessary and to actually (finally?) listen to pointed community feedback and constructive criticism.<p>I haven&#x27;t been this excited for Ubuntu since 2010.
Johnny_Brahms大约 8 年前
Not related to Ubuntu, but maybe someone here knows a good way to kill the swipe left&#x2F;right to navigate in blogs. I accidentally left the page about 5 times, which is rather annoying.<p>Using ff mobile if that helps.<p>Edit: hallelujah! Set dom.w3c_touch_events.enabled to 0 in about:config
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hatsunearu大约 8 年前
Why is dropping Unity lumped with dropping MIR?<p>Unity is great and I love it, I don&#x27;t want to lose it.
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gingerbread-man大约 8 年前
Link to the original post: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=14002821" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=14002821</a> &quot;Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?&quot;
Jerry2大约 8 年前
I currently use Ubuntu on one of my laptops precisely because it&#x27;s not GNOME. I can&#x27;t stand GNOME3&#x27;s hamburger menu UIs, giant title bars, lack of real menus, inability to make changes without digging into their version of dreaded &quot;registry&quot; and that pointless menu bar at the top. If I&#x27;m being forced to move to GNOME, I&#x27;ll be switching to Fedora instead since they have a solid track record of GNOME and Wayland support.<p>My desktop will always be Arch, however with Cinnamon and, occasionally, i3 for development.
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dankohn1大约 8 年前
Congrats to Dustin not just for some amazing crowdsourcing with the original post, but then for an extremely concise, thoughtful and humble followup for those of us who couldn&#x27;t wade through all of those suggestions ourselves.
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mwcampbell大约 8 年前
I&#x27;m impressed with your thoroughness in processing the responses. But I&#x27;m just curious: Why did you lump usability for children and accessibility for users with disabilities into one suggestion? Anyway, returning to GNOME should help with the latter.
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sunstone大约 8 年前
While it&#x27;s true that Ubuntu still has a few inconveniences, from my perspective it&#x27;s still much better than the alternatives.<p>The mere thought of having to use Windows or IOS for development make me want to curl up in the corner with my blanket.<p>Daily I use ubuntu for my desktop, laptop, TV streamer and cloud servers. Overall my satisfaction level across all devices is at least 9&#x2F;10.<p>Great job team Ubuntu!
akerro大约 8 年前
No one mentioned better Steam support&#x2F;collaboration with Valve? CPU and operating systems are made for gaming, it&#x27;s gaming that attracts users and investors from big companies and developers. Ubuntu would only benefit if they invested in MESA, faster AMD GPU integration and cooperate with Valve on Steam clients and gamedev research for Linux.
sandGorgon大约 8 年前
The one thing I&#x27;m incredibly worried about is the packaging war starting all over again. There are zero reasons for having multiple packaging formats across liNux distros .<p>I was hoping that snap or flatpak becomes universally adopted, but it seems that Redhat and Canonical are again split along political fault lines here.
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BudFox大约 8 年前
It is sad to see the modern and reliable Unity 7 put out to pasture. GTK was not used for Unity 7. Canonical chooses QT for Unity 8. KDE can easily replicate Unity 7 look&#x2F;feel. QT no longer has an objectionable license. It is not clear why Gnome is the choice over basing on KDE?
agd大约 8 年前
&quot; Fix &#x2F;boot space, clean up old kernels (92 weight)<p>...committed to getting this problem solved once and for all in Ubuntu 17.10 -- and ideally getting those fixes backported to older releases of Ubuntu.&quot;<p>Great news! Thanks for taking this feedback onboard.
drej大约 8 年前
Just an irrelevant side note:<p>When you do a requests.get(url), you can use the .json() method on it instead of all the json.loads([...].text). I remember doing the same for years and only discovering .json() recently, I love it.
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mapreri大约 8 年前
Just a note about Reproducible Builds: &quot;We&#x27;ve been working with Debian upstream on this over the last few years, and will continue to do so&quot; — well, apart from the regular sync&#x2F;merge flow from Debian to Ubuntu, AFAIK Canonical never reached out to us Reproducible Builds folks from Debian. That said, we&#x2F;I plan to reach out to Ubuntu&#x2F;Canonical soon :)
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shalmanese大约 8 年前
It would be nice to get this list sorted by most surprising as well. A lot of these feedback points seem to fall into the category of &quot;faster horses&quot; which usually tend to dominate when you solicit ideas from the general public.
jseutter大约 8 年前
Just want to chime in with others and say thank you for making this followup post. Regardless of the outcome, distilling the results the way you did means a lot to me and I&#x27;m sure others as well. Thanks!
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_jordan大约 8 年前
I would have really liked to see gnome2-esq style DE - bare bones, focus on a great windows like task bar &#x2F; windows management. I really hated the unity dock thing and I especially hated the color scheme.
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trololo12345大约 8 年前
Will this mean, that the integrated Amazon search in the desktop is also gone forever? I&#x27;d like to see Canonical making money with support instead of that Amazon thing or selling &quot;Apps&quot; to the user. That is the number one reason, why I do not recommend Ubuntu. Other than that, I&#x27;m amazed how much the community was heard! Also thanks for the in-depth analysis blog post :)
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Alan_Dillman大约 8 年前
Nice read, and I am wishing I had been in on the original topic.<p>If I had, I would have commented that the version upgrade process sucks for anyone that starts from a minimal base(like I do). If I go through the upgrade, I will end up with all the default stuff.<p>If I don&#x27;t have thunderbird installed, don&#x27;t install it for me.<p>In short: upgrades could be smarter, faster, better, stronger.
deadfece大约 8 年前
I think the best news out of this is hopefully that it seems you (as Canonical) have shifted away from &quot;This is not a democracy. [...] we are not voting on design decisions.&quot; and the (paraphrased) &quot;This is good because we [Canonical] made it!&quot;
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PleaseHelpMe大约 8 年前
I am slightly sad by the fact that rarely anyone mentioned about the battery life of ubuntu, but got excited with the &quot;Nexus-of-Ubuntu&quot; thing. I wish the best to ubuntu.
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hysan大约 8 年前
I was really happy when that Ask HN thread was first posted and even happier now knowing that all of the comments were read and thoroughly considered. That said, what this blog post and the general feeling I get from Ubuntu as a whole is that:<p>1. There is too much of a focus on how far Ubuntu has come and not enough focus on how far things still need to progress. I too remember the days when sleep&#x2F;hibernate were a crap shot, but that was when I viewed Ubuntu as an open source alternative without much expectation. Nowadays, I see Ubuntu as a mature desktop and as such, I judge it much more harshly. Anything that doesn&#x27;t work or isn&#x27;t 99.99% stable is a red flag for me. So I do hope that the Ubuntu team puts more focus on making things up to date, rock solid, and super stable rather than go chase after new features. Just like a building, you need a stable foundation before building upwards.<p>2. There isn&#x27;t a clear target audience for Ubuntu Desktop. What does Ubuntu Desktop want to be? Before it was convergence and while a very neat idea, I was never clear on who was supposed to use it. The requirements screamed high income, tech savvy end users. However, development focused on Unity, Mir, etc. with work going into features that didn&#x27;t fit the target audience. For example, like the post says, HiDPI &amp; 4K were a surprise. Why was this surprising? The group that would most likely be your early adopters and trend setters are the same exact group that would have this type of hardware. Same with trackpad, gestures, customizability, flux, root on ZFS, security, etc. All of those are used heavily by the demographic most likely to follow the news on Unity and convergence. It baffles my mind that Ubuntu&#x27;s Product Management couldn&#x27;t make this connection and understand what core features to build out first in Unity&#x2F;Mir. Yes, these are on the sidelines now, but I really hope the Product Management team takes the time to figure out some direction.<p>3. At the moment, Ubuntu is at a major crossroad. Even after Mark Shuttleworth&#x27;s post, this post, and all of my usual Linux news following, I don&#x27;t really know where Ubuntu <i>Desktop</i> is going to go. Tell us <i>what</i> we can expect as users. Tell us <i>when</i> we can expect it to come. Tell us <i>how</i> you intend on getting there. And most importantly, tell us <i>how we can help</i>! Either though regular posts to various communities like the Ask HN one, or ways we can contribute actual work. Not everyone is a dev, but as an example, I used to do professional QA and yet I found it extremely difficult to find out how I can help QA things and submit useful bug reports (this isn&#x27;t just Ubuntu but most open source projects). The usual &quot;check the docs&#x2F;wiki&quot; or &quot;submit something on the issue tracker&quot; are not helpful. In all of my years using Linux, that Ask HN thread + this blog post was the first time I ever felt like I was heard and managed to contribute to Ubuntu. Even something as simple as periodically getting feedback from the community and telling us what you heard from us makes me feel more optimistic about Ubuntu&#x27;s future.<p>I apologize for the rant-like nature of my comment, but hopefully this gets read and something positive comes out of it. Thanks for reading.
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jumasheff大约 8 年前
Re: Make WINE and Windows apps work better<p>How about booting ReactOS to run Windows apps? Sounds like a Frankenstein-ish solution, but...
shmerl大约 8 年前
Thanks for deciding to focus on Wayland from now on. This will benefit everyone.
19eightyfour大约 8 年前
Here&#x27;s a perspective on FOSS and Ububtu. One point of free open source software was we didn&#x27;t need to be stuck with features we didn&#x27;t like, that were decided by some majority, or leadership, because we could fork our own and customize as we like. So I think the enthusiasm for responsiveness of a central body to feature requests, is an enthusiasm for a thing not normally associated with a FOSS, which therefore demonstrates that either: that the Ubuntu ecosystem says it is FOSS, but actually operates like something else, or that FOSS fork-your-own theory doesn&#x27;t apply in practice on large projects with lots of people, or that this perspective just related here is missing something.
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MrTonyD大约 8 年前
Back in the days there were backroom deals to get Adobe on Apple platform. Steve would meet with Adobe executives and trade them cash and offshore stock (untraceable, of course) so that they would port to Apple. All the development for Apple was fully funded for Adobe. In case it isn&#x27;t obvious, Adobe could choose to support only Windows and do just fine - eliminating development and support costs for the Apple platform. Thus, bribing the rich and greedy became the effective technique.
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Arizhel大约 8 年前
Instead of adopting Gnome3, they should adopt KDE. It&#x27;s far more customizable (so &quot;Easily customize, relocate the Unity launcher (53 weight)&quot; would be already done) and much better architected than Gnome. And for people lamenting the loss of Unity, it wouldn&#x27;t be that hard to make a custom theme for KDE which largely replicates the look-n-feel of Unity. Gnome simply is not set up to allow any kind of customization, and the devs actively discourage it. The opposite is true for KDE, and a distro that wants to stand out with its UI would be better served with a DE that allows them the freedom of customization.
analognoise大约 8 年前
I stopped using Ubuntu after it came with Amazon shit installed.
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