TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Even moderate drinking could harm the brain

90 点作者 obeone将近 8 年前

18 条评论

simonsarris将近 8 年前
From the study itself: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bmj.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;357&#x2F;bmj.j2353" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bmj.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;357&#x2F;bmj.j2353</a><p>&gt; Principal findings<p>&gt; The relation was dose dependent, and increased odds of hippocampal atrophy were found even in moderate drinkers (14-&lt;21 units&#x2F;week in men).<p>That seems like a big range.<p>&gt; Strengths and limitations<p>&gt; The hippocampal atrophy associations we found in the total sample were replicated in men alone but not in women. This could reflect a lower power to detect an effect in women, in part because the sample was dominated by men (a reflection of the sex disparity in the civil service in the 1980s) and in part because few of the included women drank heavily.<p>That seems like it should be mentioned in the CBS article.<p>~~~<p>I wish more studies accounted for how drinking is done. It is worth wondering if drinking 2 drinks a day, 3 days a week is better for you than drinking 1 drink 6 days in a row.<p>Moderate drinking some days but not others, perhaps your liver&#x2F;brain do better because they get &quot;total rest days&quot;, whereas light&#x2F;moderate drinking every day may put them in a constant state of irritation or stress. Just like with workouts.
评论 #14508741 未加载
评论 #14509541 未加载
评论 #14509301 未加载
评论 #14508981 未加载
评论 #14509232 未加载
评论 #14508823 未加载
评论 #14509507 未加载
ihaveajob将近 8 年前
I take issue with the way moderate drinking is defined in this and other studies. Drinking, like the article states, &quot;about 5 to 7 beers or 6 to 8 glasses of wine&quot; in one week is very different if you have one beer a day, or if you drink the same amount on a Saturday night outing.<p>In Mediterranean countries it&#x27;s pretty common to have a glass with some&#x2F;most meals, but the regular weekend binging is a relatively new practice. Perhaps that explains overall population health differences with Anglo countries.
评论 #14509166 未加载
评论 #14508491 未加载
评论 #14508599 未加载
评论 #14509266 未加载
andai将近 8 年前
Link to the study: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bmj.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;357&#x2F;bmj.j2353" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bmj.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;357&#x2F;bmj.j2353</a><p>PDF: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bmj.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;bmj&#x2F;357&#x2F;bmj.j2353.full.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bmj.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;bmj&#x2F;357&#x2F;bmj.j2353.full.pdf</a><p>Criticism by Frank Harrell:<p>&gt; A very high-profile paper was published in BMJ on 2017-06-06: Moderate alcohol consumption as risk factor for adverse brain outcomes and cognitive decline: longitudinal cohort study by Anya Topiwala et al.<p>&gt; The authors had a golden opportunity to estimate the dose-response relationship between amount of alcohol consumed and quantitative brain changes. Instead the authors squandered the data by doing analyzes that either assumed that responses are linear in alcohol consumption or worse, by splitting consumption into 6 heterogeneous intervals when in fact consumption was shown in their Figure 3 to have a nice continuous distribution.<p>&gt; How much more informative (and statistically powerful) it would have been to fit a quadratic or a restricted cubic spline function to consumption to estimate the continuous dose-response curve.<p>Article: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fharrell.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;04&#x2F;statistical-errors-in-medica.." rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fharrell.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;04&#x2F;statistical-errors-in-medica...</a>.
akyu将近 8 年前
Quit drinking completely 6 months ago. Don&#x27;t have any intention of picking it back up. Friends think I&#x27;m weird, but the mental clarity is worth it. Funny how alcohol is so ingrained in our culture that it&#x27;s strange not to drink it.
评论 #14508922 未加载
评论 #14509270 未加载
评论 #14522042 未加载
评论 #14509191 未加载
评论 #14508766 未加载
评论 #14510460 未加载
jacquesm将近 8 年前
Programmers that drink (hard) are like cooks blunting their knives. I knew a couple in my 20´s that went down this route, they are not programming today. The brain is a complex piece of machinery and damage that you do to it when you are young will come back to haunt you later in life, when the aging of the brain removes some of the reserves. It is really hard to see people that were whip smart lose their faculties, especially if they had a hand in the change themselves.
评论 #14509161 未加载
daxorid将近 8 年前
<i>were three times more likely to have hippocampal atrophy compared with those who did not drink.</i><p>What is the baseline rate? 3x more likely has wildly different outcomes if the base rate of atrophy is 0.1% versus 10%.
stuartd将近 8 年前
From Money by Martin Amis:<p>--<p>I gestured at my litre of fizzy red wine. “Want a drop of this?” I asked him.<p>&quot;No thanks. I try not to drink at lunchtime.”<p>&quot;So do I. But I never quite make it.”<p>&quot;I feel like shit all day if I drink at lunchtime.”<p>&quot;Me too. But I feel like shit all lunchtime if I don’t.”<p>&quot;Yes, well it all comes down to choices, doesn’t it?” he said. &quot;It’s the same in the evenings. Do you want to feel good at night or do you want to feel good in the morning? It’s the same with life. Do you want to feel good young or do you want to feel good old? One or the other, not both.”<p>&quot;Isn’t it a tragedy?”
评论 #14508825 未加载
pc2g4d将近 8 年前
This study seems small and with the effect being the opposite of that previously found it basically amounts to &quot;What&#x27;s going on here???&quot; I did like this from the article, though:<p>In an accompanying editorial, Killian Welch, consultant neuropsychiatrist at the Royal Edinburgh Hospital, says the findings &quot;strengthen the argument that drinking habits many regard as normal have adverse consequences for health.&quot;<p>&quot;This is important,&quot; he writes. &quot;We all use rationalizations to justify persistence with behaviors not in our long term interest. With publication of this paper, justification of &#x27;moderate&#x27; drinking on the grounds of brain health becomes a little harder.&quot;<p>---<p>In company with Ioannidis&#x27;s article &quot;Why Most Published Research Findings Are False&quot;[1], I believe the rationalization effect is big in such studies. People want to believe that the things they already do are virtuous, thus there&#x27;s a bias toward finding that chocolate, wine, etc., are all actually good for you. Not to mention respective industries that would benefit from such findings.<p>1: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;faculty.dbmi.pitt.edu&#x2F;day&#x2F;Bioinf2118&#x2F;Bioinf-2118-2013&#x2F;Ioannidis-journal.pmed.0020124.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;faculty.dbmi.pitt.edu&#x2F;day&#x2F;Bioinf2118&#x2F;Bioinf-2118-2013...</a>
likelynew将近 8 年前
I don&#x27;t think I believe this. I know that it&#x27;s associated with me and can be my bias purely. But for now I will refer to this well written article: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vox.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;3&#x2F;23&#x2F;8264355&#x2F;research-study-hype" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vox.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;3&#x2F;23&#x2F;8264355&#x2F;research-study-hype</a> (This is why you shouldn’t believe that exciting new medical study)
评论 #14508738 未加载
omginternets将近 8 年前
Given how terrible mainstream news outlets are at reporting scientific results, I strongly feel that we should discourage users from linking to such &quot;stories&quot;. It lowers the quality of discourse.<p>Sci-Am is one thing, CBS News really is another...
openasocket将近 8 年前
Do they take into account diet? I don&#x27;t know anything about hippocampal atrophy, but I know <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Korsakoff%27s_syndrome" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Korsakoff%27s_syndrome</a> which is a form of severe memory loss is usually seen in very heavy drinkers, but isn&#x27;t caused by the drinking, but rather thiamine deficiency (alcoholics tend do have poor diets). I&#x27;m wondering if moderate drinkers may have slightly worse diets and so you see the same effect on a much smaller scale. There&#x27;s also other factors like sleep and daily stress that may also play a role.<p>I&#x27;m sure the scientists who performed this 30-year study knew about all this, are there things they did (or could have done) in this study to isolate the effects due to alcohol?
评论 #14508943 未加载
letitgo12345将近 8 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;f2harrell&#x2F;status&#x2F;872496449241718787" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;f2harrell&#x2F;status&#x2F;872496449241718787</a>
评论 #14508947 未加载
评论 #14508743 未加载
chicob将近 8 年前
If I didn&#x27;t know what the findings were, and if I looked merely at the graph in Fig. 6 of the BMJ article, I&#x27;d say that higher lexical scores in younger years correlate with higher declines in that same score.<p>Does abstinence correlate with lower scores? I don&#x27;t understand the three different starting points. I was expecting a normalized score (~20) with several different levels of decline.
robg将近 8 年前
Uncontrolled common cause: Alcohol use, daily stress, and sleep quality. Stress and sleep affect &quot;mental skills&quot; more than any other, esp over a 30 year period.
评论 #14509492 未加载
_RPM将近 8 年前
I really dislike the culture of drinking at startups. I don&#x27;t like to drink unless I&#x27;m with my girlfriend.
评论 #14512328 未加载
评论 #14508781 未加载
edmanet将近 8 年前
Too late for me then
sunstone将近 8 年前
Jeez, now you tell me.
atemerev将近 8 年前
Cheers!