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Why So Many Top Hackers Hail from Russia

142 点作者 snowy将近 8 年前

19 条评论

rndmize将近 8 年前
I think this stems in part from the &quot;oh I&#x27;m so bad at math&quot; culture we have in the US, where its almost expected that most kids won&#x27;t be good at mathematics. The side effect of this, imo, is that fields that are close to math or dependent on it (physics, stats, CS, etc.) pick up a piece of that stigma and idea that its acceptable to be bad at these things.<p>I&#x27;ve seen occasional articles about quants on wall street and how a good number of them are Russian&#x2F;Eastern European (this kind of thing - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;view&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2016-01-21&#x2F;how-russia-has-lost-its-mathematical-minds-to-the-west" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;view&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2016-01-21&#x2F;how-russi...</a> ) and I feel this is another directly related element - having a strong math culture allows you to have a strong CS culture.<p>I&#x27;ve been happy to see that in the last decade, the US is starting to start bringing the pieces we need to get that kind of culture back - the popularity of startups and programming with the media that bring them to the attention of the average person. Space is cool again, and movies like &quot;The Martian&quot; are, imo, absolutely critical in making science&#x2F;engineering something worth striving for. Hopefully we&#x27;ll see some of this trickle down to our educational systems in the near future.
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vrutkovs将近 8 年前
This article may have a point about poor state of basic computer education in US, but its just blindly guesses the reasons on the topic of why so many hackers are from ex-USSR countries. A pretty good level of CS doesn&#x27;t help here much - take a look at Europe, for instance.<p>The secret ingredient is a culture of cheating. Its absolutely fine to cheat on any level of exam (unless you get caught, obviously). This makes students think about the weak points of any system, gives them a chance to train their skills etc. The side effect of this culture is much higher level of corruption and financial crimes
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omot将近 8 年前
I think the question we should really be asking ourselves is why so many valuable tech companies hail from the US, specifically the bay area. Having grown up in the Bay Area, there weren&#x27;t any more special focus on mathematics &#x2F; computer science in school, in fact we were encouraged to pursue whatever we wanted to pursue. If we felt like we were bad at math, we weren&#x27;t forced into it, we should only pursue math if we really liked it. Most of my friends never made it past pre-calc, yet top tech talent from Russia come to the US, and end up working at wall street &#x2F; silicon valley. Sergey Brin comes to mind. I don&#x27;t think we should really focus on improving our mathematician&#x2F;hacker pipeline, we should make sure we&#x27;re cultivating a culture of freedom where people can explore and pursue different fields of academics, and make sure there&#x27;s no barrier to talent working for us.
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coldcode将近 8 年前
In 1973 a female teacher (I think a teacher) at my high school got funding to start a computer science (i.e. programming) class in my high school. We learned to code in Basic and Fortran(interpreted!) on a teletype machine with a paper tape reader, connected to some time sharing system, plus got industry visitors and some field trips. Today I am a programmer because of this. If someone can put that together back then you can do it now.
mc32将近 8 年前
Lots of talent (technical universities, emphasis on science and maths in general), undercompensation at local companies, and inability for international police reach (extradition from RU for &quot;cyber&quot; crimes is not routine).<p>So a nice opportunity for hackers so long as they don&#x27;t bother the local state and act outwardly.
kilroy123将近 8 年前
I always thought it was because smart people who will become good programmers are guaranteed to get a nice cushy job. (In the US) In Eastern Europe and especially in Russia that isn&#x27;t the case. Great cushy jobs are hard to come by.<p>However, there&#x27;s virtually unlimited opportunity doing shady things or hacking for profit. I once even talked to a Russian developer about this in great length. He came to the US for one such cushy job. I was pretty shocked about how freely he talked about past &quot;shady&quot; jobs. He told me, yes he _could_ make more money but he also didn&#x27;t like being so unethical. So he came here to be &quot;legit&quot;.
0xbear将近 8 年前
Russian-American here: in Russia you don&#x27;t get to choose what to study, mostly. Certainly not in middle or high school -- everyone studies the exact same set of subjects. In college you don&#x27;t get to choose individual subjects, you choose the profession, and that comes with a set of courses already baked in, some of which you&#x27;d never take on your own.<p>Whether you&#x27;re good or not at something, that&#x27;s something you cant discover until you&#x27;re pretty decent at it (see the Suzuki method), so you get exposure to a pretty broad array of subjects, one of which is informatics. I have no doubt this plays a role in exposing more kids to programming. I do not know whether any of the kids make it to the top percentile of &quot;talent&quot;. For me (although this is 20+ years in the past) and the majority of my classmates, high school informatics didn&#x27;t do anything. I already knew vastly more than the teacher, and had a computer of my own, a really shitty one, but it was a computer. The teacher knew it too, so I was allowed not to come to the class, and got &quot;5&quot;s (Russian version of &quot;A&quot;s) automatically.<p>One thing that definitely does help is that kids who suck at school are kicked out after 9th (8th back then) grade, and are expected to get vocational education, whereas those headed for college get 2 years of uninterrupted focus on their math and science at a much higher level than the dumb kids could handle. At least that&#x27;s how it was with me. A group of us have (illegally) hired our math and physics teachers to (get this!) study advanced material on the weekends.<p>Now that I have a kid of my own, it&#x27;s hard to even imagine that he would take this kind of concern in his own affairs. He has everything, so he will probably amount to nothing. There&#x27;s no incentive. It&#x27;s not &quot;either you get good at something, or you&#x27;ll clean pig manure for the rest of your life&quot; dichotomy. It&#x27;s more of a &quot;play computer games all day, and then shake down your parents for cash when you turn 18&quot;. Vastly different environment.<p>I would also like to point out, that top engineers almost invariably end up in the West. Russia has the &quot;oil curse&quot; and the &quot;management curse&quot;. The oil curse is because in a country so rich with natural resources the taxation and business environment are geared towards those wildly profitable companies, and doing anything else doesn&#x27;t make sense. The management curse is that managers in Russia typically demand unconditional respect for authority and think they should be much better compensated than an engineer. Both of those things are something a top hacker will almost certainly have problems with. In the West, you&#x27;re more likely to be listened to and treated as an equal.
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sr2将近 8 年前
Too much emphasis on education and college in this article. Hacking requires &#x27;thinking outside the box&#x27;; often called lateral thinking[0]. Formal education in the subject of hacking is nice, but doesn&#x27;t allow for the creative mind to fully explore systems. There&#x27;s a phrase:<p><pre><code> Don&#x27;t Learn to Hack - Hack to Learn </code></pre> In terms of earning money from hacking, there are tradeoffs made in both whitehat and blackhat hacking. One noticeable tradeoff in blackhat hacking is having no boss, and penetrating a system on your own terms. Whitehat hacking might pay more and be more respectful and a nice little haven where you can avoid jail, but it&#x27;s often riddled with a rigid framework for getting into systems and doesn&#x27;t encourage the lateral thinking I previously mentioned. Instead it&#x27;s a corporate cubicle job where hacking is often automated and routine.<p>On the other hand, there is grey hat hacking which many fall into at some stage to strike a balance, and often balance criminality with a respectful whitehat job that pays well.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Lateral_thinking" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Lateral_thinking</a>
gottebp将近 8 年前
Cold climates encourage indoor activities.
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aiw1nt3rs将近 8 年前
you&#x27;ve heard the word &#x27;hungry&#x27; before? ;)<p>desire&#x2F;poverty + descent education system (especially in classic sciences) + long history of political &#x27;experimentation&#x27; in the area might explain the phainomenon
chaosagent将近 8 年前
The article mentions an &quot;AP Computer Science&quot; curriculum that it claims does not cover programming and is not actually APCS, but is instead AP Computer Science Principles, an &quot;intro to computers&quot; for less stem-oriented students that was introduced last year. The actual APCS curriculum mostly involves learning basic programming constructs and some Java APIs, and is done solely in Java.<p>Also, there used to be AP Computer Science B covering basic algorithms and data structures, but CollegeBoard killed it because barely anyone took it.
maxxxxx将近 8 年前
The devs from Russia I have worked with had a much better mathematical foundation than people from germany or the US.<p>I have never gone to school in Russia but as far as math goes their schooling seems much better
NumberSix将近 8 年前
What is striking to me is that the table of AP tests taken (2016) in the article clearly states:<p>Calculus AB 302,532 Calculus BC 118,707<p>for a total of 421,239 students taking this demanding technical subject and exam in 2016 (one year). Undoubtedly, in this day and age of cheap readily available computers with more power than a 1980&#x27;s Cray supercomputer, most of these students both have computers and have undoubtedly done lots of programming whether they have taken AP Computer Science or not.<p>As for Microsoft, they have announced numerous layoffs of tens of thousands of highly skilled engineers in the last few years, for example:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zdnet.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;microsoft-layoffs-of-18000-employees-begin&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zdnet.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;microsoft-layoffs-of-18000-empl...</a><p>Many in Finland which consistently ranks TOP in international ratings of education, math, and science.
ivan_ah将近 8 年前
As a STEM person, I like the STEM-makes-you-a-hacker angle of this piece, but I think a more likely causation factor is the need for software piracy.<p>Most computer users in Eastern Europe do not pay for Windows. They download a pre-cracked installed, or use a serial, or a crack or something. For an entire generation or two, before you&#x27;d get access to a computer, you&#x27;d have to know how to install a pirated OS on it. Same for all software and media. Piracy, yes, piracy. Terrible, I know, but very motivating. If you learn how to use a computer, you&#x27;ll have access to stuff. If you don&#x27;t, then no stuff.<p>But worry not, the Eastern Block is not about to take over the internet. The stupefying site with the blue header has taken over mind share and now nobody is learning anything about anything anymore, anywhere around the world, equally.
tryitnow将近 8 年前
&gt; although there currently are just over 42,000 high schools in the United States, only 2,100 of them were certified to teach the AP computer science course in 2011.<p>This boggles my mind. Only 5% of high schools are even certified to teach CS?<p>I wonder if this could be addressed at the state level. Why couldn&#x27;t California mandate a more Russian style approach - perhaps even with an entirely new exam and curriculum since the CS AP exam doesn&#x27;t appear to cut it.<p>Computer Science is just as important as language skills now, we need to start acting like it.
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kuroguro将近 8 年前
Russian culture - especially in business - is a lot more cutthroat than the west. I would argue that it leads to more people picking up engineering skills as it&#x27;s one of the safest paths.<p>I&#x27;m probably biased but the thought &quot;my life might not matter much but at least my skills are in need&quot; is pretty common here next to Russia&#x27;s border.
kylehotchkiss将近 8 年前
I was going to guess it has something to do with Russia&#x27;s youth&#x27;s relationship with Video Games. thought they don&#x27;t play lots of games or something. Then I looked at wikipedia, with 5 sources stating how the biggest issue with video games there is piracy[1]. Ethics aside, great way to learn your way around a computer!<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Video_gaming_in_Russia" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Video_gaming_in_Russia</a>
baybal2将近 8 年前
Anybody want to make a mini-AMA with me here @_@ ?
dsfyu404ed将近 8 年前
Sounds like job security for me.