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Cooling the tube – Engineering heat out of the Underground

348 点作者 mzehrer将近 8 年前

31 条评论

kator将近 8 年前
Subways in NYC are not fun in the summer either. I always assumed it was because when they were designed they didn&#x27;t consider a future state where air conditioners on the trains dump their heat into the tunnel.<p>I tried searching for a similar study for NYC but all I found was old articles from years back.<p>It doesn&#x27;t look like the MTA shares any measurements of temperature in their data feeds: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.mta.info&#x2F;developers&#x2F;download.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.mta.info&#x2F;developers&#x2F;download.html</a><p>Does anyone have ideas on how we could get this sort of data for NYC subways?
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Jyaif将近 8 年前
The Montreal subway system has a very clever way of somewhat saving energy (and emitting less heat): the section of the track at the station stop is higher than the rest of the track. This means that the train&#x27;s kinetic energy is converted to&#x2F;from potential energy whenever the train arrives&#x2F;leaves the station stops.
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f_allwein将近 8 年前
Related: tube map showing temperatures <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gizmodo.co.uk&#x2F;2017&#x2F;05&#x2F;its-official-the-bakerloo-is-the-hottest-london-underground-line&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gizmodo.co.uk&#x2F;2017&#x2F;05&#x2F;its-official-the-bakerloo-i...</a>
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f_allwein将近 8 年前
&gt; offered a prize of £100,000 to anyone who could come up with fresh ideas<p>Too late now, but I wonder if they considered district cooling, where e.g. cold water from rivers is used as an alternative to air conditioning. Seems to be used successfully in my hometown of Munich: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.swm.de&#x2F;english&#x2F;m-fernwaerme&#x2F;m-fernkaelte.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.swm.de&#x2F;english&#x2F;m-fernwaerme&#x2F;m-fernkaelte.html</a>
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franciscop将近 8 年前
The Tokyo (and Japan in general) underground&#x2F;subway is actually quite fresh and amazing in the hot summer. How do they do it? It might be interesting to learn from them and a good question for the Underground of London Engineers.
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Animats将近 8 年前
Long-term heat buildup was known in the design stage to be a problem for Eurotunnel.[1] Huge chilled water plants were built to prevent that from happening. It&#x27;s a surprise, though, that it would be a problem for the London Tube, which has so many connections to the surface.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;1991&#x2F;05&#x2F;01&#x2F;business&#x2F;business-technology-air-conditioning-a-32-mile-tunnel.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;1991&#x2F;05&#x2F;01&#x2F;business&#x2F;business-technolo...</a>
raverbashing将近 8 年前
How much would it cost to add regenerative braking to the cars?<p>And instead of ventilation shafts you would probably need active heat pumps
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avar将近 8 年前
I don&#x27;t understand why lack of space above ground is a hindrance to building new ventilation shafts. Surely these aren&#x27;t going to be wider than a sidewalk, and in central London the distance between any two roads on a block is rarely more than 50-100 meters.<p>You&#x27;d end up with lots of ventilation grates on the sidewalks on the surface, but that seems like an easy and space efficient solution.
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tomohawk将近 8 年前
I wonder if using a different means of regenerative breaking would work, such as hydraulic hybrid.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hydraulic_hybrid_vehicle" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hydraulic_hybrid_vehicle</a><p>Much more of the power would be preserved, leading to less heat.
richardjennings将近 8 年前
Is it feasible to increase the distance into surrounding clay that heat can be conducted? Could metal be used to conduct heat from clay surrounding tunnels to clay that is presumably cooler, further away? I could imagine that if a material exists that insulates electricity but conducts heat very well, the track itself might be useful in transferring heat to cooler clay, making the track colder and cooling tunnels.
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GoodAdmiral将近 8 年前
It&#x27;s quite incredible that the clay soil is still absorbing heat from the introduction of the tunnels. I heard possibly wrongly that the clay drys out too and ends up insulating the tube lines over decades.<p>Regenerative breaking sounds like the quickest and cheapest way to address the problems - not that any change would be &#x27;quick&#x27; or &#x27;cheap&#x27;.
Dwolb将近 8 年前
What about a mechanical sling shot system at each sub station?<p>As the train arrived it gets slowed by a spring or similar system which is then used to propel the train forward once it needs to depart.<p>Also, what about just slower trains? The heat produced while acccelerating or braking is probably not exactly linear with the speed of the train.
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amoorthy将近 8 年前
Interesting article. However I can&#x27;t recall tube stations being much warmer than outside temperatures in winter (on non-windy days). If that&#x27;s right then how is the heat dissipated better in winter?<p>I don&#x27;t live in London so anyone with regular riding experience please correct me if I&#x27;m wrong.
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ricw将近 8 年前
I never got why the heat in the tube was not being used as a heat source. You could extract the heat and supply it to surrounding buildings at a cost, thereby cooling the tube. The tech is readily available. It would be a win win situation. Plus it&#x27;d be be very environmentally friendly.
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toyg将近 8 年前
&gt;<i>The future of the cooling the tube project will be judged not so much by how they cool the hot tunnels, but by how they stop tunnels becoming hot in the first place.</i><p>That&#x27;s a very good metaphor for our planet.
jpalomaki将近 8 年前
&quot;Over 47 million litres water are pumped from the Tube each day&quot; [1]<p>Use the heat from air in tube to warm the water that is anyways getting pumped up. (Too lazy to do the math to see if this would make any difference)<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.telegraph.co.uk&#x2F;travel&#x2F;destinations&#x2F;europe&#x2F;united-kingdom&#x2F;england&#x2F;london&#x2F;articles&#x2F;London-Underground-150-fascinating-Tube-facts&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.telegraph.co.uk&#x2F;travel&#x2F;destinations&#x2F;europe&#x2F;united...</a>
l5870uoo9y将近 8 年前
Is the temperature still rising or have it plateaued?
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dredmorbius将近 8 年前
The general strategy would be a) introduce less heat and b) extract more. The first might be accomplished through greater efficiencies, though that&#x27;s limited.<p>If a major heat component is braking, then locating the additional cooling capacity where breaking is heaviest (presumably on inbound station approaches) might offer advantages -- at the very least this reduces the total treated area for maximum effect.<p>Given the possiblity of ground-based thermal banking, and the long-term nature of the issue, if <i>any</i> amount of coolant could be circulated through the thermally-affected clay, and made available for seasonal heating needs elsewhere in the city, that might be a net win.<p>I&#x27;m familiar with geothermal energy projects elsewhere (borehole projects in Australia, the Habernero project) where the problem is actually inverted: themal <i>extraction</i> cools the strata around a borehole, over the course of about 40-50 years, to the point that no further useful heat can be extracted.<p>The thought also occurs that the steel rails themselves are thermally conductive and might be made a part of the cooling system. Not a tremendous radiative surface, but a long conductive length. Poorly placed, that is, low within the tunnel, rather than high, for effective heat extraction though.
ziikutv将近 8 年前
Silly question, is the heat so low that it cannot be used for something other than releasing above ground?
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memracom将近 8 年前
Here is an idea that I sent to the Underground in 2006 when they solicited suggestions from the public.<p>Add cool to the tunnels, rather than taking heat out.<p>Build liquid air plants above ground, 2 or 3 floors up in the air so that the heat of the pumps is released above street level and the noise can be kept away from the street. Feed the liquid air into the tube tunnels through insulated pipes which takes up far less volume than air vents. Let gravity bring the liquid air down the pipes. Release the liquid into the tunnels near platforms where the air pump effect of moving trains caused lots of air circulation. Also the car doors open on the platforms.<p>Since you are liquifying the air, not just the oxygen, it can be safely released anywhere in the tunnels. And if your air intakes are high up you will actually be improving the air quality in the tunnels as well, i.e. cleaner air flows in.
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mixedmath将近 8 年前
I wonder, how long would they need to shut down the tube before temperatures lowered?
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Tharkun将近 8 年前
How much heat are we talking about? I&#x27;m guessing it wouldn&#x27;t be enough to use for district heating, the way some industrial waste heat is converted to hot water for homes?
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sjg007将近 8 年前
Also if 50% of the heat is from braking and accelerating at the platform, why not just AC the crap out of each station?
sambull将近 8 年前
Long term heat build up because of human activities. It may not because of climate change, but this is how humans change climates.
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Roritharr将近 8 年前
What is so &quot;experimental&quot; about the air coolers in the picture? They look like normal A&#x2F;Cs
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sjg007将近 8 年前
I&#x27;d look at how ants or termites cool their nests for inspiration.
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zkms将近 8 年前
&gt; Most of the tube tunnels have above ground sections, so a hybrid idea is to use air conditioning in the trains when above ground, and while above ground to cool a block of “phase change media”, or water to you and me, into an ice pack. When underground, the heat that would be dumped in the tunnels is absorbed by the ice-pack until it has returned to water.<p>&gt; Whether this can be viable is still being looked at, bearing in mind that they already struggle to fit air conditioning units into tube trains, finding space for the ice blocks is going to be even more of a headache. And not to forget that the extra weight means more energy needed to drive the trains, driving up running costs.<p>This can be worked around, <i>do the chilling on the wayside</i>, not on the train! At each station, run chillers that can reject waste heat on the ground -- and chill a nontoxic liquid glycol&#x2F;water mixture to -40 C. Commercial equipment exists to do this already. Have air&#x2F;liquid heat exchangers on each EMU, along with glycol storage tanks, a pump, and sensors to keep track of the temperature&#x2F;volume of the glycol in each tank. On the roof of the EMU, install large-diameter quick-mating liquid connectors, along with fiducial marks. At each station, wayside equipment uses computer vision to locate the fiducials on the EMU, mates with the connectors, does a pressure test to verify the integrity of the connection (squirting glycol is a no-no), pumps out all the warmed glycol (and replaces it with cold stuff), and disconnects. This can be done during the dwell time if the connectors and refill tubing are of large diameter.<p>Cooling loads are on the order of 50 kilowatts per EMU and inter-station times are on the order of 10 minutes, which means 30MJ per EMU. The ending temperature of the glycol will be on the order of 10C (you need a temperature differential to ensure heat flows from the glycol to the air), its initial temperature will be -40C -- a temperature difference of 50K. Glycol&#x2F;water mixtures have a specific heat of around 3.2kJ&#x2F;(kg * K), so we have:<p>30 MJ = (3.2 kJ &#x2F; kg * K) * mass * 50 K<p>leading to a mass on the order of 200 kg, which is quite tolerable for a rail vehicle. The tanks for the glycol can be spread around the car and can be arbitrarily shaped (as long as fluid can be circulated and offloaded) to deal with other constraints. There&#x27;s no phase changes involved, which makes the heat exchange work non-annoying; there&#x27;s just liquid glycol and air. EMUs don&#x27;t need to haul around an air-cooled chiller, all the equipment on the EMU is reliable, does not consume much electricity, and is extremely tolerant of vibration and the harsh environmental conditions aboard a rail vehicle.<p>If you want to reduce mass further and are willing to accept some more complexity, it might be sensical to use a small chiller on each EMU that <i>uses the glycol for heat-rejection</i>. What does this give you? It means that you can still generate a constant chilled water temperature of 10C, but let the end temperature of the glycol go <i>above</i> 10C -- and more temperature range on the heat storage fluid means more heat energy can be dumped into it. When the glycol temperature gets above 10C, turn on the heat pump to create chilled water at 10C, and reject heat into the glycol (stop before it boils). Liquid&#x2F;refrigerant heat exchangers are much smaller than air&#x2F;refrigerant exchangers, so if your compressor isn&#x27;t obscenely heavy, you can likely save some weight. If you can use the glycol from 10C (when heat won&#x27;t passively flow from the glycol to the air) to 60C (a reasonable condenser temperature) -- that&#x27;s another 50K worth of temperature difference, which means our 200kg load of glycol can be cut in half.
iamflimflam1将近 8 年前
More information available from the article&#x27;s source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ianvisits.co.uk&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2017&#x2F;06&#x2F;10&#x2F;cooling-the-tube-engineering-heat-out-of-the-underground&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ianvisits.co.uk&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2017&#x2F;06&#x2F;10&#x2F;cooling-the-tube...</a>
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eecc将近 8 年前
For one thing I&#x27;m surprised they&#x27;re not using regenerative brakes. It sure will cost some of the profit but refurbishing the trains with these will cut somewhat on that 80% of heat
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em3rgent0rdr将近 8 年前
The surrounding earth acts as a temperature storage buffer, so without ventilation, it will be extremely difficult to remove heat. Instead of the more difficult problem of trying to <i>remove heat</i>, I would rather focus on simply <i>reducing the total heat produced</i> in the lower levels. That can be done by having the lower trains be only for express, so they aren&#x27;t accelerating and decelerating as much (which is when the heat is produced), with fewer trains in general, and then save the tracks closer to the surface focus for the more heat-producing non-express trains and for the more frequent trains.<p>On a related subject, the temperature of any cave will remain almost constant at the location&#x27;s average annual surface temperature. So another option would be to focus on not producing so much heat in the entire city in the first place, to lower the average temperature.
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marze将近 8 年前
The heat from the trains etc. heats the surrounding clay over a period of years. You can add less heat, or you can remove heat from the surrounding clay, or both.<p>Removing:<p>Run ventilation on high during winter and keep temps quite low in the tunnels.<p>Run ventilation on high on cooler nights.<p>Install cooling tubes in the surrounding clay and cool it directly. Either from above, or from the tunnel itself, a ground-source heat pump (geothermal heat pump) to pull heat from the clay. These can be powered by the cheapest available power, likely solar on sunny days in the future.<p>Adding less:<p>Upgrade motors to highest efficiency available. This could halve the waste heat from the motors.<p>Regenerative braking: if it is too complex to put the power back on the grid, build large &quot;electric kettles&quot; and dump it into a vat of water with resistance heaters. The water vat could be part of a water main so it would be constantly refreshed, and result in slightly warmer water for water users.<p>Instead of ice in the cars, cool brakes and motors that exceed 100C with water, by boiling the water. This absorbs terrific amounts of heat per kg water.
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