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Real estate site Redfin files for IPO

246 点作者 realdlee将近 8 年前

25 条评论

bkjelden将近 8 年前
I hope this company sees nothing but success.<p>I bought my house through Redfin last year, and not only did I save ~$5k in commissions compared to a conventional realtor, I also felt the process was much smoother and more pleasant than other times I&#x27;ve interacted with a conventional realtor.<p>It&#x27;s simply absurd that in an era where any buyer can view photos of a house for sale online real estate agents still expect to receive 6% commission on the sale of a house.
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notadoc将近 8 年前
I&#x27;m still waiting for someone to completely eliminate the realtor and charge a reasonable flat fee ($1000?) to buy&#x2F;sell a house and handle all the related details.<p>Why do we need realtors at this point? Everyone finds houses themselves online nowadays. Why does anyone need to pay a whopper commission to some middle-man?
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tabeth将近 8 年前
I&#x27;m very interested in why many people believe a realtor should receive a percentage of the home&#x27;s sale price as compensation but not the:<p>- inspector (arguably a good one is more useful than realtor by pointing out foundation problems and other issues that can cost 10s of thousands)<p>- attorney (again, arguably more useful. they can point out clauses and things like flood zone, unpermitted work, liens on the property, etc.)<p>- appraiser (you might not even be able to get a loan if the house appraises for less than the purchase price, unless you can foot the difference and&#x2F;or waive appraisal contingency)<p>- lender (unless you&#x27;re paying all cash. some lenders have vastly different interest rates they can offer you, given a credit score. this can save you 10s of thousands).<p>Additionally, it doesn&#x27;t really make sense. The realtor&#x27;s value is not proportional to the price of the home. Even if you believe a realtor is extremely valuable, a house being twice as much in price wouldn&#x27;t make them twice as valuable.<p>Redfin is definitely an interesting step in the right direction towards fixed fee realty.
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wyc将近 8 年前
Here&#x27;s a great piece by Ben Thompson discussing the economics and markets of such services:<p><pre><code> Both limit growth: regular agents with a stake in the current system steer home buyers away from Redfin properties, and hiring and training agents who aren’t interested in the upside from commission takes a lot of time and money. </code></pre> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stratechery.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulating&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stratechery.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;opendoor-a-startup-worth-emulat...</a><p>Why the flat-fee brokerage Allre had to close shop:<p><pre><code> All of these internet companies that profess to want to disintermediate the real estate business – just as they did with the travel agency business (everyone even uses the same analogy) – forget one major fact: buying and&#x2F;or selling a home is often the largest, most complicated transaction a person may undertake. </code></pre> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;therealdaily.com&#x2F;editorials&#x2F;allre-startup-thinks-immune-brokerage-laws-may-lose-main-partner-even-launch&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;therealdaily.com&#x2F;editorials&#x2F;allre-startup-thinks-imm...</a>
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htedatsu将近 8 年前
I had a superb experience with them in 2012 despite being a nightmare customer. Chose Refin because their blog was so good. I bought a 2nd house in the same neighborhood. It started out odd because part of their onboarding is asking &quot;Where do you want the check sent?&quot;, because, you know, you save so much using them. I knew it would be fake but whatever. (It wasn&#x27;t--I did indeed get the $10K check almost immediately upon closing.) Problem is that my bank thought I was a terrorist, despite the fact that I have literally 12 accounts with them (several businesses, savings, checking, etc.). I put down 20% on an $890K loan. My income is closer to $800K than $500K and my other house in the neighborhood was already paid for. The simple act of moving the $200K into an account ready to write the check spooked the bank and they literally treated me like a terrorist. Suddenly everything took infinite amounts of time to handle and resulted in triple the usual paperwork. It was excruciating.<p>The bank (Bank of America, of course) caused so much trouble that I finally decided to pull out and lose my $20K earnest money. (I had chosen B of A on the theory that they already knew all about me, and also because they offered a killer ARM.) The mortgage officer literally quit his job over his bank&#x27;s bungled handling of my sale. Somehow they came through, by this time, 3 months after I had made the offer. I was actually paying $100&#x2F;day to the sellers because at this point they had moved out and were in a hotel and weren&#x27;t able to close on their own new house.<p>Anyway, my agent at Redfin was a champ, even when I told her I was quitting. So she had way more trouble than a full-service agent with none of the upside. The whole thing on Redfin&#x27;s side was precisely as advertised.
strict9将近 8 年前
Bought my house via redfin and very satisfied with the process. It&#x27;s also a bonus for buyers, they send you a refund check for a portion of the commission that normally all goes to agents.<p>Their agents may have less experience or knowledge, but as long as you get highly rated&#x2F;reviewed service providers (lawyer&#x2F;inspector&#x2F;etc), that&#x27;s all that matters. When I sell my current house it will definitely be via redfin. So much is now done online, why pay high commission to traditional realty companies?<p>This is indeed an industry ripe for change, and redfin is definitely doing just that.
biastoact将近 8 年前
I bought through Redfin five years ago.<p>Actually, we offered on two houses, backed out after poor inspections, and then purchased the third house in a competitive multi-bid environment all in a few months. With Redfin I never felt the kind of sales&#x2F;relationship pressure to close a deal that I did when buying with traditional realtors. The only reason we didn&#x27;t sell our Condo through Redfin is I wanted someone in the neighborhood who could help coordinate painting, staging, etc in the lead up to the listing.<p>All and all a great experience.
jdross将近 8 年前
Having completed thousands of home sales at Opendoor, I believe a system will works better for most home sales, but local expertise works better for high-end homes.<p>An agent always make you feel like their differentiation matters. Redfin advertises their refined process across thousands of homes to sell faster for more money. Your neighbor advertises their local expertise and awareness to get you an edge.<p>We joke that real estate is like politics – Everyone hates real estate agents, but loves their real estate agent.
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africajam将近 8 年前
Realtors have for the longest time seen other realtors as competitors. Its time they recognise that the true competition is from large sites like Redfin that will use tech to gain an advantage over them.<p>I realised this after several conversations with realtors about this open source project I&#x27;ve created to help them build decent websites:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;etewiah&#x2F;property_web_builder" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;etewiah&#x2F;property_web_builder</a><p>Most of them figured if it was open source then any of their competitors could use it and be just as good as them. They would say this even if they recognised that my product would give them a better website than they currently had. Pretty strange way of thinking if you ask me....
msielski将近 8 年前
Some food for thought: &quot;The future of employment: How susceptible are jobs to computerisation?&quot;[1] which has been discussed on HN previously, lists &quot;Appraisers and Assessors of Real Estate&quot; at .9 probability of computerization and &quot;Real Estate Brokers&quot; at .97. It&#x27;s certainly not a solved problem, but these two jobs are nearly at the top of the list (or bottom, as the list is in reverse order).<p>[1] PDF: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk&#x2F;downloads&#x2F;academic&#x2F;The_Future_of_Employment.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk&#x2F;downloads&#x2F;academic&#x2F;The_Futu...</a>
debacle将近 8 年前
Having worked in the real estate industry for a time, it&#x27;s ripe for disruption. Redfin is going to have a problem when it paves the way for a flat rate competitor, but right now it&#x27;s doing a massive service to buyers and sellers.
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paulie_a将近 8 年前
Disclaimer: After a decade of working in the real estate industry in various aspects I will say it is a sh*t show of incompetence, laziness and greed.<p>While most real estate sites are bad, zillow is awful and Realtor.com should be considered a crime against humanity. I have to say redfin seems &quot;ok&quot;<p>On that note I am surprised that redfin is missing basic marketing messaging.
1024core将近 8 年前
I like Redfin, but I have a couple of qualms with it:<p>1. They will tag a house as &quot;hot&quot; arbitrarily. The cynic in me thinks this tag is for sale.<p>2. They tend to hide information. I&#x27;ve seen houses come on the market, not sell for weeks, go out and then come back in the market for a lower price. But their &quot;history&quot; section does not list &quot;price reduced&quot;; they just pretend like the previous listing never existed. For example, the house at 110 Steiner Street ( <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?q=110+Steiner+Street&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?q=110+Steiner+Street&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;...</a> ). It came on the market, and now is nowhere to be found. But when it does come back on the market, they will completely erase the history of this house not having been sold.<p>3. They allow you to filter with other criteria, but Walkscore is not one of them. I have given them feedback several times, but no response.
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ransom1538将近 8 年前
Redfin with its smaller cut of RE transactions on the seller side combined with the ability to circumvent MLS with it&#x27;s own listing system could be the begining of the end for agents.
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theprop将近 8 年前
Redfin is a big pile of nothing. It&#x27;s a glorified real estate agency which is itself an anachronism or soon will be.<p>You can <i>easily</i> find online or other brokers ready to &quot;sell&quot; your house which just means listing it on the realtors&#x27; association multiple site listings for 1% or even a few hundred dollars. The realtors association still control everything in terms of having all the data on homes for sale.<p>They could have some opportunity in giving buyers rebates i.e. having a 1-2% margin for buyers which most agents don&#x27;t give, mostly because it&#x27;s a lot luck to find a buyer than to represent the sell-side.<p>The idea that it&#x27;s worth around 8x revenues...a low margin business as a real estate agency is...is a stretch, though to be fair, their revenues are fast-growing without that much of a marketing spend.<p>Not sure how their quarterly sales vary (seems like a lot in their profitability at least) but their latest quarter was terrible with only $6 mn in gross income on nearly $60 million in revenues and then $30 mn in operating expenses.<p>They claim to have helped users buy&#x2F;sell $40 billion in real estate last year but showed just $270 mn in revenues which is something like .8% of that market value (while it should be in the 1.5 to 2.5% range I think). Not sure why that it is.
codebook将近 8 年前
I am actively looking the house right now. And getting disappointed by Redfin these days. Previously it showed listed price for sold properties but now it has gone. Only sold price is shown. Not only this, but the property disappeared from MLS then re-listed with higher price tag doesn&#x27;t show previously listed price.<p>Information should be transparent between seller and buyer but Redfin is leaning to seller side at this moment.<p>So, I am using Zillow more frequently than before.
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kevincennis将近 8 年前
I had a positive experience with Redfin, but honestly feel like even with the refund check, I still overpayed for their contribution.<p>I shopped online, went to open houses on my own, and Redfin basically just contacted the seller on my behalf to present an offer. I&#x27;d be shocked if my agent did more than a few hours total work over the entire duration of the sale – though I liked him a lot, and he was super responsive the few times I needed him.
everybodyknows将近 8 年前
Guess how many California-licensed real estate <i>BROKERS</i> Redfin employs? The answer is here:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www2.dre.ca.gov&#x2F;PublicASP&#x2F;pplinfo.asp?License_id=01521930" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www2.dre.ca.gov&#x2F;PublicASP&#x2F;pplinfo.asp?License_id=0152...</a><p>A total of six BROKERS. Helped out by 528 <i>SALESPERSONS</i>, who have little or no financial responsibility.<p>A curious fact that no RE agent or Realtor will tell you: Under California law, the terms &quot;real estate agent&quot; or &quot;Realtor&quot; have no significance.
jhulla将近 8 年前
Good for Redfin. Disruption in any business that charges 6% transaction fees is great.<p>Having said that, real estate transactions are complex beasts with many moving parts. A lot of this process can be scripted and templated. But there are many situations where it cannot. Buyers and sellers are under immense stress as they face very large financial and legal decisions. They don&#x27;t understand the process, the terminology, the legal and financial consequences, etc. There are local regulations and conventions that differ from region to region. E.g: Check out the differences in who pays fees across counties: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;chicagotitletransfertax.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;chicagotitletransfertax.com&#x2F;</a><p>Good agents absolutely earn their fees when uncertainty and complexity arise. I suspect Redfin is seeking to carve out the part of the market that comprises straight-forward, template driven transactions.
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haberman将近 8 年前
I&#x27;m closing literally today on a house I bought through Redfin. It&#x27;s my third Redfin buying experience. Redfin for buying is great. Their website makes it easy to look for properties and get alerts when properties you might like go on the market. No need to pay a realtor to do that part.<p>I&#x27;m still not using Redfin for selling. When you sell, you&#x27;re paying for a salesman, and a salesman can make a big difference on how much you sell for, IMO. Redfin will save you 2%, so the question you have to ask yourself is: will a traditional agent make me 2% or more, compared with Redfin? I think the answer is yes, they likely can.
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sabujp将近 8 年前
redfin maps + school ratings + real time alerts, and when I say real time I mean I was in a house in fremont with my realtor and I got an alert during the private viewing that the house just went pending, hah! In any case, this site was instrumental in helping us find a house. RDFN is definitely going in my portfolio.
aabajian将近 8 年前
To get rid of real estate agents: You have to find a way to create a free multiple listing service (satellite imagery maybe, looking for FOR SALE signs?). It&#x27;s the MLS monopoly that has kept the real estate industry in the dark ages.
Grustaf将近 8 年前
Ah, so that&#x27;s why it was name dropped on Silicon Valley recently...
skynetv2将近 8 年前
i purchased my house thru RedFin and it was an amazing experience. Yes, a bit more hands on than conventional realtor but you never know how much a conventional relator was working on your behalf anwyay
andrewhillman将近 8 年前
Coming from a background in real estate as an active broker who has worked with Redfin agents, I&#x27;d like to point out a few things. Redfin&#x27;s biggest asset is their website. It&#x27;s a good user experience and grabs them a lot of leads. However, Redfin agents tend to be subpar agents when representing sellers and or buyers. Most wouldn&#x27;t survive in a regular brokerage setting. If I am hiring an agent, I want a hungry service oriented agents, not someone who is fine with receiving a salary. Discounts are enticing to consumers, but from what I have noticed these discounts come at a cost to their clients. Rather than list a bunch of examples, from what I have witnessed, Redfin agents are not all that skilled in negotiating. They are actually horrible. Redfin needs to train better but training is a multi-faceted issue. They need experienced brokers who have been beaten up and have seen it all. I was lucky to have a mentor who played a significant role in redefining the industry back in 2001. Let&#x27;s just say, nobody knew what the concept of Exclusive Buyer Agency was during the late 90s. Anyway, in order to have great agents, they need to learn from smarter battle tested agents in the office. An agent needs good instincts to represent clients well. This takes time - 10,000 hours easy and they need to see a lot of deal flow. You learn from the ugly deals, not the smooth ones. Fortunately, for Redfin most Redfin buyers&#x2F;sellers won&#x27;t realize how good their agent is until they have something to compare it to. Redfin does not have top agents nor can the attract high-quality agents. In order for them to succeed in the public market, they will need to increase fees because the cost of maintaining and attracting talent isn&#x27;t cheap. Discounting gives companies a good chance to obtain market share. But market share will go down once they raise fees. Historically speaking, discount real estate companies don&#x27;t do well in public markets. Let&#x27;s look at one example of a company associated with discounts, Zip Realty. I think they did an IPO in 2004 or so. Over the years things didn&#x27;t go well so they were forced to merge. Now, you might say, REDFIN is different. This is somewhat true but I am sure if you read the Redfin S1, you will see some of the concerns I have addressed.<p>This is coming from a non-traditional broker. I have always gone against the grain. I believe Redfin will need to evolve a lot to get the public market to embrace them. If I had to guess they will become a little more &quot;traditional&quot; overtime.<p>I hope Redfin trains better and figures things out. Otherwise, they will need to merge post-IPO.<p>Sorry for the long comment. I could write forever on this topic. I may do this on my site when I have a couple of hours.