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Why Brilliant Girls Tend to Favor Non-STEM Careers

116 点作者 hudon将近 8 年前

15 条评论

11thEarlOfMar将近 8 年前
By the time they are born, male and female brains are already different:<p>&quot;A huge testosterone surge beginning in the eighth week will turn this unisex brain male by killing off some cells in the communication centers and growing more cells in the sex and aggression centers.&quot;<p>Since they are different at birth, we shouldn&#x27;t be surprised that their interests are different, and accept that these differences contribute to varying populations of men and women in different professions.<p>Stamp out bias. Don&#x27;t force a specific population distribution.<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;abcnews.go.com&#x2F;GMA&#x2F;Books&#x2F;story?id=2274147&amp;page=1" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;abcnews.go.com&#x2F;GMA&#x2F;Books&#x2F;story?id=2274147&amp;page=1</a>
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Spooky23将近 8 年前
I never understood why certain female dominated fields like Nursing are excluded from STEM. My mom was a nurse, my sister in law is a NP and my wife is studying to be an RN.<p>It sure looks a lot more like STEM than my &quot;tech&quot; job, which has more elements in common with what my aunt did as a secretary in the 70s than science.
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noobermin将近 8 年前
Very interesting article, and sort of depressing for me, specifically the conclusion of Wang et. al[0]. That if you&#x27;re good at both math and communication, you choose a more social field over the mathematical one is almost a condemnation of the mathier fields.<p>Then again, being good at math in high school as Wang et. al measures doesn&#x27;t really translate to math in college, which is much more problem solving oriented than math in high school. That&#x27;s something to keep in mind here, so the whole idea that they end up being spread more broadly and thus aren&#x27;t concentrated in STEM as the socially dumb men are is a more convincing explanation, it really doesn&#x27;t have to do with differences in ability, it&#x27;s merely other factors, mainly which major they try first.<p>How interesting.<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cds.web.unc.edu&#x2F;files&#x2F;2014&#x2F;10&#x2F;not_lack_of_ability.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cds.web.unc.edu&#x2F;files&#x2F;2014&#x2F;10&#x2F;not_lack_of_ability...</a>
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chrismealy将近 8 年前
In 1970 law and medical school graduates were about 10% female. Now it&#x27;s about 50%. Did women change their interests? Are interests fixed? It doesn&#x27;t matter. Just stop discriminating and give everyone the chance to develop their interests and capabilities.
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hn_throwaway_99将近 8 年前
I think the author&#x27;s evidence that there is scientific bias (social scientists preferring to see bias-based explanations for numeric disparities over other reasons) is quite strong. I&#x27;m curious if there is other data on this subject.
le-mark将近 8 年前
This blog posts challenges the gender gap in STM, does it exist? Why does it exist? The author cites some studies that support his argument that women simply prefer to work with people, not things.
EGreg将近 8 年前
Many years ago, I happened upon this analysis of why things are the way they are, and it rang true:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.denisdutton.com&#x2F;baumeister.htm" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.denisdutton.com&#x2F;baumeister.htm</a><p>I def recommend Baumeister and Tice to HN.
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PlugTunin将近 8 年前
<i>1. 70 percent more girls than boys had strong math and verbal skills;<p>2. Boys were more than twice as likely as girls to have strong math skills but not strong verbal skills.</i><p>No surprise on the 1st; I recognize that women can do&#x2F;be anything they want in this world. But I wonder if the 2nd stat is explained mostly by the fact that MORE men are strong at math (not being a chauvinist pig; just running with stereotype)...or are the two genders equally represented among Math Elite and girls twice as likely to have strong verbal skills?
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dlwdlw将近 8 年前
A large weakness people have is the necessity of a sense of safety before taking risks. A risk here is defined as a testing of a personal idea. 3rd party ideas necessarily are already vetted to some degree by reality because transportation to you require going through reality.<p>Risks as defined then are a necessity for living a unique life. It isn&#x27;t always the most desirable thing as the majority of people would rather follow a crowd, but it does often have the most disproportionate rewards for work input.<p>I don&#x27;t know if it&#x27;s biological or cultural, but girls&#x2F;women often require a much higher sense of safety before being willing to do risky things. There is also a much higher &quot;cost&quot; from society from doing things that look foolish. This results in less of a desire to learn, especially as you approach the cutting edge where the failure rate rapidly rises and civilized structures start deteriorating. (the social structure that works best in this &quot;wild&quot; is the frat bro&#x2F;alpha male structure)<p>Being born beautiful is actually a weakness due to an addiction to strength in this regard. A corresponding male strength is academic excellence. Both these strengths become weaknesses because of lack of experience dealing with setbacks and shocks as well as the accumulated dry tinder that was never periodically cleared via said setbacks. (old people are stubborn because they have too much tinder to risk in a fire&#x2F;refactor) I use academics as the male example as it creates a drives to validate the prior excellence often forcing them along paths into finance or other areas with high monetary compensation. Selling soul for money, taking no risk by not being true to yourself.<p>Thus addiction to strength creates risk averseness and stagnates growth. Girls are often shielded from reality and also have an escape route of marriage. (men don&#x27;t, an extreme example of an alternative for them for meaning is being a suicide bomber)<p>Almost all social structures in the world heavily cause girls to become addicted to social validation. (Note that individual validation can be &quot;proved&quot; by money while social validation cannot. Objective and subjective tokens of value) The stereotype of &quot;ugly&quot; girls in STEM is a result of being beautiful increasing the chance of this addiction. (The stereotype of smart&#x2F;beautiful but crazy may have origins in life-changing experiences that shatters the status addiction but did collateral damage. )<p>Safety is a necessity for learning which necessarily involves mistakes. However the minimum safety level can be vastly lowered by encouraging a dismissive attitude towards social validation.
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peterwwillis将近 8 年前
A coherent article trying to establish evidence of a particular argument or claim would include all available studies and weigh them against their various differences in order to find a viable conclusion. It would, at the very least, attempt to search for alternate explanations and present them, and then make an attempt to debunk them.<p>The article&#x27;s main problem is it&#x27;s trying to attack a very specific problem, which is actually part of broader trends in human behavior and culture. It doesn&#x27;t address that at all.<p>The author claims &quot;gap != discrimination&quot;, which is true in basic definition and theory. But if you look at all the other studies that show things like hiring discrimination, discrimination getting into a good school, discrimination based on where&#x2F;how one grows up, cultural discrimination, etc, gaps immediately form and cause a ripple effect.<p>That there are about as many black men as white women (or less) in a given tech field is one example of this. Pick any other discriminated-against minority and you see the same, except when hiring from overseas (economic benefit) or hiring someone with a preferred social stereotype.<p>If the author&#x27;s argument is that women simply prefer not to go into this field due to some weird connection between math and speech, then you have to ask why the connection? Is it due to &quot;biology&quot;, or social conditioning, or the wariness of sexual harassment in a male-dominated field, or the low pay, or a combination of these things? This article doesn&#x27;t attempt to look at those, and its limited view of the subject leaves it running into the same correlation-is-causation conclusions it laments.
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knbknb将近 8 年前
My gut feeling is that women prefer jobs where one must communicate more. Many tech professionals are required to spend their workdays lonely in front of the computer. This is a very unattractive concept to most women. This may be a biased view, yes, but that&#x27;s just how they perceive it.
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TimTheTinker将近 8 年前
Is this being modded down? (93 points&#x2F;6 hours, and already on page 3 after being on the front front page 2 hours ago...)
SerLava将近 8 年前
I&#x27;ve been questioning the general assumption that male-dominated things are always desirable.<p>Maybe some things are stupid to do, and men tend to get tricked into them more often. Maybe moderately high pay is a trick to get people to do draining, unhealthy jobs, and men are more likely to succumb to the temptation.<p>It&#x27;s not a good idea to become an underwater welder, but you do get paid a lot. It all goes into medical care, but you do get paid a lot.
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josephagoss将近 8 年前
Should STEM be seen as desirable though?<p>It is one of those careers where you either make it before you are 25 or you are replaced.<p>STEM fields are extremely ageist where at 25 and onwards you have to look over your shoulder and watch out for the next 16 year old taking your job.<p>STEM for this reason is stressful and non sustainable.<p>Being in STEM and much older than 25 I feel that perhaps I made the wrong decision getting into STEM. Perhaps a people orientated career would have lasted me longer. I haven&#x27;t been replaced yet, but can feel it coming...
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WalterBright将近 8 年前
Consider this clip:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=-BE476MvO_g&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;t=124" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=-BE476MvO_g&amp;feature=youtu.be...</a><p>If this doesn&#x27;t rock you down to your toes, you are not an engineer. At least not a born engineer.
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