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Note to Google Employees from CEO Sundar Pichai

207 点作者 nimz将近 8 年前

45 条评论

koolba将近 8 年前
Quoting Sundar Pichai (Google CEO), emphasis mine:<p>&gt; At the same time, <i>there are co-workers who are questioning whether they can safely express their views in the workplace (especially those with a minority viewpoint)</i>. They too feel under threat, and that is also not OK. People must feel free to express dissent. So to be clear again, many points raised in the memo—such as the portions criticizing Google’s trainings, questioning the role of ideology in the workplace, and debating whether programs for women and underserved groups are sufficiently open to all—are important topics. <i>The author had a right to express their views on those topics—we encourage an environment in which people can do this and it remains our policy to not take action against anyone for prompting these discussions</i>.<p>Good luck with that. You can&#x27;t take a guy out back and shoot him for speaking his mind, and subsequently expect others do so.<p>I&#x27;m certain Google management knows this as well. They know exactly what they&#x27;re doing and they&#x27;re fine with it.
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dopamean将近 8 年前
I am a black dude from an upper middle class family that went to private school his whole life and I am very, very familiar with how it&#x27;s possible to have great ethnic diversity but a severe lack of diversity in other areas (and how negatively that can affect things). Because of this I&#x27;ve often wondered how a company or any group of people can include perspectives that many other people find to be morally reprehensible.<p>Let&#x27;s say someone at my company holds the opinion that black people are generally too stupid to do tech jobs and they write a memo to the company explaining that opinion. They cite sources that show how blacks underperform academically compared to other ethnic groups and go about it in a really professional way. Should the company just say &quot;well this guy made some good points maybe we should reconsider our diversity programs.&quot; Should they tell all the black employees at the company that they should be more open minded to that opinion? As a black guy at that company I would be really unhappy about that and I&#x27;d probably quit. I genuinely don&#x27;t understand how that&#x27;s supposed to work and would love to hear some suggestions.
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zaptheimpaler将近 8 年前
Moral of the story: stupid angry lynch mobs win when they are loud enough to be the majority. It doesn&#x27;t matter how uninformed the majority viewpoint is.. majority &gt; minority.<p>There is no debate, only angry people seeing what they want to see. Get angry first, ask questions later (or never) - just people being people.<p>Googles response is simply to appease both sides as best they can, recognizing that one is the majority. The firing is enough blood to appease the stupid &amp; intolerant, this post is to appease the rest.
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cnlwsu将近 8 年前
Keep politics&#x2F;religion out of work. Its one thing to rant on reddit at end of day, its another to broadcast it to co workers. What did he expect would happen? His little write up would change everyones mind? Both left&#x2F;right are extremists these days and will never change. All you will do is alienate and anger a bunch of co workers for a few pats on back from &quot;your&quot; side. While the smart people will put heads down and get actual work done at work and talk politics at end of day at a bar with friends&#x2F;family like the rest of the country.
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naturalgradient将近 8 年前
There is just no winning in the following chain of arguments:<p>- We can debate anything<p>- However, some views are too harmful to be debated<p>- Whoever is most vocally outraged decides the boundary between open to debate&#x2F;too harmful
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tokenizerrr将近 8 年前
&gt; The past few days have been very difficult for many at the company, and we need to find a way to debate issues on which we might disagree<p>...So we&#x27;ve fired the person starting the debate? Am I missing something here?
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jamesrcole将近 8 年前
By firing the employee, Google is sending a strong signal that they will not tolerate a diversity of opinions.<p>That does not bode well for them, for a restrictive intellectual environment is anathema to the kind of intelligent people they want to hire to keep the company competitive.
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protomyth将近 8 年前
Frankly, the CEO has more problems than this memo. Breitbart has been a garbage fire for a while, but if the screen shots and messages in the article[1] aren&#x27;t fake then Google is going to have some problems. This is really not the thing you want going on when you already have a government labor investigation underway. I wish anyone impacted luck.<p>1) <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.breitbart.com&#x2F;tech&#x2F;2017&#x2F;08&#x2F;07&#x2F;revealed-inside-googles-sjw-cabal-blacklists&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.breitbart.com&#x2F;tech&#x2F;2017&#x2F;08&#x2F;07&#x2F;revealed-inside-goo...</a>
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k-mcgrady将近 8 年前
This thread seems to be a perfect demonstration of the problems when it comes to diversity in tech. People just don&#x27;t seem to get it. I see the same thing in threads around big SV names sexually harassing women (and in those cases it blows my mind even more that people don&#x27;t get that it&#x27;s a problem).<p>It seems like a lot of people are basing their opinions on logic (fine) but in a perfect world where everyone has equal opportunity, we live in a meritocracy, and people are judged solely on performance. Unfortunately none of those things are true and we need to manipulate things manually to ensure people are given equal opportunity.
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spodek将近 8 年前
To Sundar Pichai:<p>How could someone express the views the author felt without getting fired, while still promoting discussion?<p>Is it <i>possible</i>, just <i>possible</i>, that Google&#x27;s policies are counterproductive? If so, how would Google find out? By what process could someone change them?<p>If such processes exist, why would someone the company valued enough to hire risk his job to send this memo?<p>Is it <i>possible</i> that Google&#x27;s environment does not accept some minority viewpoints despite your beliefs and attempts?
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rsp1984将近 8 年前
This is definitely <i>the</i> best response to the memo that I&#x27;ve read. He clearly says which parts of the &quot;manifesto&quot; are an acceptable expression of opinion in the workplace and which aren&#x27;t. I am very relieved that he didn&#x27;t jump on the bashing bandwagon and dismissed the memo as a whole just because it contained some questionable and inappropriate parts.<p>This makes it very credible that he&#x27;s actually read the whole thing and thought about it. Something that I miss dearly with 99% of the other discussion contributers (e.g. [1] which is IMO just hate speech of a worse kind than the memo it responds to).<p>I really thought I wouldn&#x27;t write this but kudos and thanks to Sundar for such a balanced and well thought-out response.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@yonatanzunger&#x2F;so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@yonatanzunger&#x2F;so-about-this-googlers-man...</a>
Sir_Cmpwn将近 8 年前
Wow, I&#x27;m surprised to see the comments here being hateful towards this statement. I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s contradictory at all. The stance he takes is that any subject is up for debate, so long as you don&#x27;t step out of line with respect to the code of conduct. The guy who was fired was way out of line, far beyond any reasonable limits to topics of discussion. Even as a particularly opinionated person myself, who would be likely to start a lot of shit at Google - even about diversity, I consider these limitations just.
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java_script将近 8 年前
This whole thing to me is a great example of why the &quot;Facts don&#x27;t care about feels&quot; crowd is so disingenuous. Supporters of the memo writer talk about how scientific and logical he was being, yet he draws lines that are not supported by science at all. We barely know what things contribute to success of software teams at all, let alone the implications of evopsych biotruths on them. And all this pseudo-scientific reaching is for the grand purpose of saying current employees who came to the company maybe from outreach programs shouldn&#x27;t have been reached out to. Which, objectively and logically, is a dead-stupid thing to argue in an internal company-wide memo.
ExploitsforFun将近 8 年前
SV has had major problems sheltering people in leadership who have used their positions to sexually exploit their female subordinates. Yet a mid level engineer publicly questions some of the company&#x27;s diversity policies and gets fired. Many of publicly stated reasons about women leaving tech is predatory behavior by people in leadership. How about initiatives about getting rid of individuals like that.
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rewrew将近 8 年前
Let&#x27;s break down the reality of this situation as it currently stands:<p>1) You can&#x27;t say what you want at work, period (there are no first amendment protections at work, just from the government). The person who posted the memo was naive and this memo from the CEO is corporate bullspeak to look good for outside PR. That&#x27;s all this is, and if you take it for anything more you&#x27;re also naive. For all intents and purposes it means nothing.<p>2) The company might be trying to make women feel more welcome by having the statement from the new diversity officer and the CEO, but I can tell you as a woman the LAST place I&#x27;d want to get a job right now is Google -- everyone is going to look at you like you only got your job because you&#x27;re female; it&#x27;s going to be extremely hard to get people to take you seriously. That&#x27;s why, if you&#x27;re going to hire only for diversity (not that I recommend it), do it in silence, don&#x27;t tell the world, as it only backfires against those same employees you&#x27;re bringing in.<p>3) If Google really wanted to get more females and minorities in its rank it should be looking at why it focuses so highly on only top rank schools (IF TRUE: MAY NOT BE-- SEE DISCUSSION BELOW) -- there&#x27;s plenty of great, smart people constantly overlooked by Google because they can&#x27;t see past their own biases in this area, which some would argue is a bigger barrier to diversity at Google than straight hiring by gender and race alone.
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supremesaboteur将近 8 年前
This is the moment. Google used to be this dream place to work, not anymore. If other companies want to hire good conservative&#x2F;libertarian engineers, they should motion loud and clear that they will not ostracize employees for having a differing political opinion
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swalsh将近 8 年前
The first thought that came to mind for me, &quot;I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.&quot;
funnyguys将近 8 年前
When you insinuate that some of your co-workers have certain drawbacks because of their gender, it makes that particular gender all the more aware of their behaviour and they are put in a position where they to take extra effort to prove otherwise. This is creating hostile environment for them. This is the reason why similar forms of generalisation, like racism, is frowned upon – not just because of innate sense of right or wrong.<p>Being white male, I bet most of us would never have faced any significant discrimination and please stop pretending that we know how other side feels.<p>Some people are suggesting Google&#x27;s stance on LGBT is alienating people - Really? So, people who advocate taking away LGBT people&#x27;s rights and opposed to their ways of life are complaining of persecution?
andy_ppp将近 8 年前
A lot of comments already misunderstanding the excellent response by Sundar Pichai in the article.<p>You obviously can&#x27;t say anything you like at work.<p>Google is offering diversity of opinion but there are things you can say that are just stupid and will get you fired.<p>If you replace women in his essay with African American there would have been about 1 second between it being posted and it being taken down, with an escort out of the building and rightly so.<p>I loved this talk from Sheryl Sandberg that touches on a lot of these issues, particularly the &quot;joke&quot; near the end, 39 minutes:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gsb.stanford.edu&#x2F;insights&#x2F;sheryl-sandberg-develop-your-voice-not-your-brand" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gsb.stanford.edu&#x2F;insights&#x2F;sheryl-sandberg-develo...</a>
sol_remmy将近 8 年前
Government regulation is actually the culprit here.<p>Google is being sued by the Department of Labor for violating a gender discrimination regulation: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2017&#x2F;apr&#x2F;07&#x2F;google-pay-disparities-women-labor-department-lawsuit" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2017&#x2F;apr&#x2F;07&#x2F;google-pa...</a><p>Google&#x27;s response is driven by this lawsuit. They have antitrust regulations on one side, discrimination regulations on the other. Sundar is aware that the government could sue Google out of business.
retox将近 8 年前
A &quot;Note to Google Employees&quot; on a public site.<p>Seems legit.
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andruby将近 8 年前
For those who, like me, missed the news that Google fired the author of the original memo, here&#x27;s the HN discussion around that: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=14952787" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=14952787</a>
funnyguys将近 8 年前
Any one even remotely thinks that the memo was right should read this : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@yonatanzunger&#x2F;so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@yonatanzunger&#x2F;so-about-this-googlers-man...</a> There are some good points in the memo - like having training and support for men, but it was largely an exercise in casting doubt on the ability of certain subset of your co-workers to do their job.
mnglkhn2将近 8 年前
Full, unedited document. Gizmodo did a hatchet job ar taking charts and links out. People should read it and then apply reason to it. Difficult when we get into cult-like mob mentality.<p>James Damore document: [<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@Cernovich&#x2F;full-james-damore-memo-uncensored-memo-with-charts-and-cites-339f3d2d05f" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@Cernovich&#x2F;full-james-damore-memo-uncenso...</a>]
lolgoogle将近 8 年前
Outside the Bay Area bubble, this is <i>extremely</i> damaging to Google&#x27;s image.
ropman76将近 8 年前
The real issue is how much a corporation can enforce &quot;correct&quot; opinions among it&#x27;s employees. This was an internal company forum. He expressed opinions that deviated from company policy (and from the sounds of it a lot of other employees at Google disagreed as well) and a lively debated ensued. OK that what sounds like a healthy thing to have happen and get ideas out there and agreed upon or shot down. However by firing him that sends a very clear message that any deviation from the norm will not be tolerated. That&#x27;s not diversity, that is an attempt at moral conformity.
vivekd将近 8 年前
We have this thing called diversity policies, and some people agree with it, and some people disagree with it. The people who agree with it are free to present arguments about why workplaces are discriminatory and why diversity is valuable.<p>But with this - I&#x27;m starting to wonder if the same is true for the other side. Are people free to post counter arguments showing that lack of diversity may be due to other factors such as difference in behaviour or tendencies? It doesn&#x27;t appear that way.
Caveman_Coder将近 8 年前
When I worked at Google I saw far worse things being said about those who held conservative opinions on Memegen and eng-misc. The real issue is not that he expressed opinions that could be constituted as harassment, that happens all the time at Google, the only problem is that he dared to hold the &quot;wrong&quot; opinion, counter to the dominant culture.
sandstrom将近 8 年前
He&#x27;s basically saying the same thing that got Larry Summers axed as president of Harvard.<p><pre><code> [...] stomped Harvard University President Lawrence Summers for mentioning at a January 14 academic conference the entirely reasonable theory that innate male-female differences might possibly help explain why so many mathematics, engineering, and hard-science faculties remain so heavily male. </code></pre> At least this guy is in good company.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2005&#x2F;02&#x2F;why-feminist-careerists-neutered-larry-summers&#x2F;303795&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2005&#x2F;02&#x2F;why-fem...</a>
polotics将近 8 年前
OMG, Cancelling his vacation? what message about work-life balance is the CEO sending? ;^)
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chvid将近 8 年前
I wonder about the internal workings of Google here; did he (Sundar Pichai) actually ok&#x27;ed the firing of the memo author?<p>Is this text actually written by him or is it by some HR&#x2F;communications person? It seems very coded and indirect.
EJTH将近 8 年前
&gt; we strongly support the right of Googlers to express themselves<p>By fireing them? Really?!<p>I see a lot of criticism from people who didn&#x27;t read the memo. Most people just fall for the sensationalist headlines of &quot;OMG GOOGLE RELEASED ANTI-WOMEN MEMO REEE&quot;.<p>The memo wasn&#x27;t that bad. It tries to highlight some very real problems in this age of intersectional recruitment.
camgunz将近 8 年前
The whole &quot;across cultures&quot; thing in that 1 (importantly, <i></i>one<i></i>) study is easily explained by a couple things:<p>- men grow more muscle faster and that used to be important<p>- childbirth used to be (and in many places still is) very dangerous for women<p>Consequently most societies defined gender roles in similar ways, leading to similar effects across them.<p>Or you can go even simpler and say they&#x27;re more neurotic because their odds of being raped by a man are terrifyingly high. Or they get paid less than men and charged more for things like health care, car loans and mortgages so they carry a higher financial stress burden. Or their health plans are inadequate and they&#x27;re worried about what will happen if that matters. Or they&#x27;re being harassed in the workplace.<p>Or you can dispute the premise entirely and say the standard for &quot;neuroticism&quot; was based on a culture created and still dominated by men.<p>---<p>A lot of people are saying things like, &quot;he didn&#x27;t really write anything that was sexist or misogynistic&quot;, but women and people of color are far too familiar with fucked up policies justified by &quot;biological differences&quot;. There are real, deep, life and death social problems right now caused by misogyny and they all stem from the fundamental idea that women have their role and men have theirs.<p>What does this lead to? Health care policies that cost women more and don&#x27;t even meet all their needs. Health care systems that service women less effectively than men (stroke symptoms are often missed in women, childbirth mortality rates in less progressive parts of the US, etc.), jobs that pay women less than men, laws that ignore or oppress women, etc. etc. etc. etc. And every time, it&#x27;s justified with &quot;women are just biologically different than men&quot;.<p>Why can&#x27;t you express such an opinion in the workplace? Because that opinion is responsible for the oppression of billions of women throughout the entire history of humanity. It&#x27;s not at all like arguing for wind over solar, or honestly other political debates over private vs. public health care or whatever. When you&#x27;re talking about social issues, you&#x27;re talking about systems that have oppressed, brutalized and murdered unbelievable numbers of people, and continue to oppress people that you work with and see each and every day. They&#x27;re not idle thought experiments or a curious hobbies. Treat them with the sensitivity they deserve.
metaphorm将近 8 年前
This is the chilliest I&#x27;ve yet felt the chilling effect.
CoffeeDregs将近 8 年前
What a bummer. This could have been &quot;Kubernetes for organizations&quot;, how to manage diverse sets of containers-of-emotions&#x2F;talents in a scalable fashion. There is so little nuance and quality thinking around this topic inside most organizations and Google could have done the community a great service by elevating and firmly grounding the discussion. And I think there are great discussions to be had that would lead to tech workers understanding and desiring diversity for <i>actual reasons</i> and not for PC&#x2F;BS reasons.<p>But now no one will raise the topic.
tryingagainbro将近 8 年前
<i>At the same time, there are co-workers who are questioning whether they can safely express their views in the workplace (especially those with a minority viewpoint)</i><p>Define &quot;safely&quot; and maybe you can express your viewpoint. The good news is that Google ain&#x27;t gonna shoot you after a 15 minute trial (including appeals) but you&#x27;ll get fired and blackballed. (Google could at least give this guy FU money with a wink and a nod.)<p>No company will hire you after rocking the boat....things have already been decided by those who scream loudest. WTF are you to question them now?
zpq将近 8 年前
&gt; Aug 8, 2017<p>&gt; This note was sent to Google employees this evening. -Ed.<p>I&#x27;m reading a note from the future. Incredible!
nadim将近 8 年前
This site so janky on iOS.
octaveguin将近 8 年前
Let a thousand flowers bloom.
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dsfjksdf将近 8 年前
&quot;The author had a right to express their views on those topics—we encourage an environment in which people can do this and it remains our policy to not take action against anyone for prompting these discussions.&quot;<p>Maybe he missed the memo that the author has been fired? How is that encouraging for people with unpopular opinions?
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xedarius将近 8 年前
Know this, I&#x27;m cancelling my holiday just to show you and more importantly my manager exactly how serious this is. Just to reiterate, you&#x27;ve all made me cancel my holiday, you bad, me good.
justusw将近 8 年前
Interesting. Was this submission kicked off the front page? I can&#x27;t find it anymore except by using the search.
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cmurf将近 8 年前
Completely predictable. And I&#x27;m amused that the alt-right is currently flipping their shit over &quot;PC nonsense&quot; and calling for #boycottgoogle<p>And this dumb bro thinks he has a legal case.<p>I&#x27;m also amused with the pro-business anti-government types are the first to go wailing to the government for intervention on behalf of their first amendment rights <i>which do not apply to an employer</i>.
thanksgiving将近 8 年前
A little off-topic but if you care about your employees, please make all salary and compensation information for any employee available to all employees (preferably make it public). Someone has to start doing the right thing.
sidcool将近 8 年前
I think this is a very good step in positive direction that the CEO is addressing the issue in public. Independent of whether I agree or disagree with the decision, I commend the blog.
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